Storm Jibs - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 06-13-2002
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 59
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
waltzingmatilda is on a distinguished road
Storm Jibs

Is there a formula for figuring the size of a storm jib for my Cape Dory 26? I see various sized storm jibs advertised in ads for used sails, but have not been able to find any way of determining which size would be appropriate for my boat. There must be a way of determining this.
On the same topic, are there guidelines for the construction of such a sail. Storm jibs are used when wind conditions are pretty tough, and I would assume that very strong construction would be needed, but some ideas of things to look for on such a sail would be welcome.
Thanks to anyone who responds.
Peter
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 06-13-2002
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,670
Thanks: 5
Thanked 104 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Storm Jibs

I do not think that a strom jib really makes sense on a boat the size of a Cape Dory 26 but storm jibs seem vary in size between 70% of the foretriangle down to as little as 40% of the foretriangle. They need to be very flat, and heavily constructed. Thier sheets are generally spliced directly onto the sail. They require large reinforcing patches. They generally have very high cut foots so that they don''t catch waves and are fairly high aspect ratio. They are often lead to heavily reinforced sheet lead locations.

Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 06-13-2002
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 59
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
waltzingmatilda is on a distinguished road
Storm Jibs

Jeff, I wonder why you feel that a storm jib is not the right sail for my Cape Dory 26? I do not have a roller furling jib, and am looking for a headsail that I could use when the weather turns bad, as it often does on Lake Erie during the summer months. I have seen the wind kick up to 50 kts very quickly, and while I would be heading towards a port, I know that sometimes I will not be able to reach port before the storm hits. Is there another alternative that you can suggest? Thanks, Peter
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 06-13-2002
sailor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
ndsailor is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to ndsailor
Storm Jibs

I had a storm jib on my Cape Dory 25 and used it all the time when the wind topped 30 mph. It really helped the boat sail on its proper lines and keep the speed up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 06-13-2002
Senior Nappy Headed Ho
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 734
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Denr is an unknown quantity at this point
Storm Jibs

Waltzingmatilda
I think all responsible mariners voyaging beyond sight of land should carry storm jibs. The 50% size range for a storm jib (approx. 10 oz. material) is a good rule of thumb. What are you supposed to do, turn the motor on when the wind pipes up to thirty knots and higher when you''re in the middle of lake Erie? I''m fairly certain that your motor is not powerful enough to move your vessel at more than 1-2 knots in these conditions. Sailing in these wind conditions (assuming the standing and running rigging is in good condition) may be your only recourse to return to safe harbor. Ignore the ill advice; you''re on the right track.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 06-13-2002
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,670
Thanks: 5
Thanked 104 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Storm Jibs

A lot of this depends on how your boat is set up but in a general sense a storm jib for a boat like the Cape Dory gets so small as to be worse than useless. I say that because in high winds really small jibs offer a lot of wind resistance without much drive. A true storm jib for a boat the size of a Cape Dory 26 would fall in that category. What might work better would be a ''spitfire'' jib which is a small (mabe 70%-80%) jib with a high clew and a flat cut.

I would think that you would be better served with a deep second reef. On my prior boat a 28 footer I found that in winds over about 30 knots (and I did sail her in winds that were reportedly over 65 knots) the best strategy was to remove the jib and snug down to a double reefed main with lots of vang, halyard and clew tension and no jib. In that configuration you have a snug cat boat that is easy to handle. This gave me the best control in the gusts and was easy to handle since it was self-tacking.

On a boat that size, I would lead your halyards and reef lines back to the cockpit and rig your jib with a downhaul so you can drop it from the cockpit.

I did have a heavy weather jib which was great in winds up to about 30 knots exspecially when combined with reefed mainsail. That sail was almost a 90% jib, cut flat out of very heavy cloth. I used that sail maybe a dozen times in the years that I owned that boat and really enjoyed it each time.

Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 06-13-2002
Senior Nappy Headed Ho
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 734
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Denr is an unknown quantity at this point
Storm Jibs

Jeff....Unless your previous boat was a Cape Dory 26 your advice doesn''t mean squat, especially in a full keel boat like the Cape Dory. In order to have any drive to punch into waves and wind in 30 knots of wind or more you''ll need a head sail, end of story! The boat will be better balanced and make better speed to a harbor of safe refuge. A downhaul and jib halyard led to the cockpit is a good idea.

So you can have a heavy weather jib (storm sail, or what ever you call it) on your boat but waltzingmatilda can''t have one on his boat? Are you implying that waltzingmatilda is not as good of a sailor as you are and can''t handle this sail?

If backpedaling was an Olympic event you''d win a gold medal for this performance!
Boy, the things you read on the internet!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 06-13-2002
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,670
Thanks: 5
Thanked 104 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Storm Jibs

Denr,

If you bothered to read posts before you blew your stack and tried to trash them, I think your posts would be of greater value to this community. In waltzingmatilda''s posts, he clarified that he was looking for a sail that could be carried in winds of 50 knots. I suggested that he would probably be better off with a a shallower reef in his mainsail and no jib at that windspeed than with a deeper reef in his mainsail and a storm jib. As you and I both seemed to agree storm jibs were sized somewhere more or less around 50% of his foretriangle. On a 26 footer that is a very small sail and when cut appropriately flat is hard to get to fly properly in a blow.

I have actually weathered a blow in my 26 foot 1939 Stadel Cutter (which was a full keel boat) under a storm staysail and found that the windage of this small sail made it very hard to tack through the wind or find a comfortable angle of attack. The windage of the foresail tried to pull the bow off to leeward but did not seem to provide any real useful drive. When we struck the foresail we were able to thread our way much more easily. I had a similar experience with my 1949 25 foot Folkboat. Although she had a similar hull form to the Cape Dory 26, she was a fractional rig and so does not provide the best example.

My comments intended to be helpful and were based on my own experience owning 6 boats between 25 and 28 feet, full keel, modified fin and fin keelers in a variety of cutter and sloop rigs, you are right that a person who has actually ridden out a 50 mph storm on a Cape Dory 26 with a storm jib would be a more valid source of information. In that regard I would agree that ndsailor''s comments are quite relevant to the discussion. It would be helpful to the discussion if ndsailor could mention in a little more detail the percent of foretriangle of his storm jib and how it is cut and where his sheet leads are located.

As to back pedaling, in my post I suggested that a heavy weather sail sized at 70% to 80% of the foretriangle might work well in windspeeds significantly less than the 50 mph winds waltzingmatilda was concerned with. This is a very different sail for a very different circumstance than the approximately 50% foretriangle storm jib that waltzingmatilda was asking about.

Jeff


waltzingmatilda
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 06-13-2002
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 59
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
waltzingmatilda is on a distinguished road
Storm Jibs

Gentlemen, thank you both, well, every one of you who have responded to my post about the storm jib. I certainly don''t mean to create a discussion filled with animosity here. But, I do appreciate the comments made by each of you, and for your taking the time to try to help out a fellow with a new (to him) boat, much bigger than he''s ever had before. My searches among the used sail dealers on the web haven''t come up with much in the way of smaller headsails that would fit my boat, and I guess maybe I need to think about exactly what I want. Thanks again to each of you. I''ll respond off the website, directly via email addresses.

Fair winds to each of you,
Peter
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 06-13-2002
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Christineb10007 is on a distinguished road
Storm Jibs

Jeff,

Thank you for making those comments on the previous poster. You took the words right out of my mouth.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Storm jibs waltzingmatilda Gear & Maintenance 0 06-07-2002 07:37 PM
Storm jibs waltzingmatilda Gear & Maintenance 0 06-07-2002 07:32 PM
Storm Jibs waltzingmatilda Gear & Maintenance 0 05-29-2002 07:21 PM
Storm Jibs waltzingmatilda Gear & Maintenance 0 05-29-2002 07:19 PM
Self-Tacking Jibs murph182 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 2 02-22-2002 07:52 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:07 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.