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Storm Jibs

4K views 17 replies 8 participants last post by  davidk 
#1 ·
Is there a formula for figuring the size of a storm jib for my Cape Dory 26? I see various sized storm jibs advertised in ads for used sails, but have not been able to find any way of determining which size would be appropriate for my boat. There must be a way of determining this.
On the same topic, are there guidelines for the construction of such a sail. Storm jibs are used when wind conditions are pretty tough, and I would assume that very strong construction would be needed, but some ideas of things to look for on such a sail would be welcome.
Thanks to anyone who responds.
Peter
 
#2 ·
I do not think that a strom jib really makes sense on a boat the size of a Cape Dory 26 but storm jibs seem vary in size between 70% of the foretriangle down to as little as 40% of the foretriangle. They need to be very flat, and heavily constructed. Thier sheets are generally spliced directly onto the sail. They require large reinforcing patches. They generally have very high cut foots so that they don''t catch waves and are fairly high aspect ratio. They are often lead to heavily reinforced sheet lead locations.

Jeff
 
#3 ·
Jeff, I wonder why you feel that a storm jib is not the right sail for my Cape Dory 26? I do not have a roller furling jib, and am looking for a headsail that I could use when the weather turns bad, as it often does on Lake Erie during the summer months. I have seen the wind kick up to 50 kts very quickly, and while I would be heading towards a port, I know that sometimes I will not be able to reach port before the storm hits. Is there another alternative that you can suggest? Thanks, Peter
 
#5 ·
Waltzingmatilda
I think all responsible mariners voyaging beyond sight of land should carry storm jibs. The 50% size range for a storm jib (approx. 10 oz. material) is a good rule of thumb. What are you supposed to do, turn the motor on when the wind pipes up to thirty knots and higher when you''re in the middle of lake Erie? I''m fairly certain that your motor is not powerful enough to move your vessel at more than 1-2 knots in these conditions. Sailing in these wind conditions (assuming the standing and running rigging is in good condition) may be your only recourse to return to safe harbor. Ignore the ill advice; you''re on the right track.
 
#6 ·
A lot of this depends on how your boat is set up but in a general sense a storm jib for a boat like the Cape Dory gets so small as to be worse than useless. I say that because in high winds really small jibs offer a lot of wind resistance without much drive. A true storm jib for a boat the size of a Cape Dory 26 would fall in that category. What might work better would be a ''spitfire'' jib which is a small (mabe 70%-80%) jib with a high clew and a flat cut.

I would think that you would be better served with a deep second reef. On my prior boat a 28 footer I found that in winds over about 30 knots (and I did sail her in winds that were reportedly over 65 knots) the best strategy was to remove the jib and snug down to a double reefed main with lots of vang, halyard and clew tension and no jib. In that configuration you have a snug cat boat that is easy to handle. This gave me the best control in the gusts and was easy to handle since it was self-tacking.

On a boat that size, I would lead your halyards and reef lines back to the cockpit and rig your jib with a downhaul so you can drop it from the cockpit.

I did have a heavy weather jib which was great in winds up to about 30 knots exspecially when combined with reefed mainsail. That sail was almost a 90% jib, cut flat out of very heavy cloth. I used that sail maybe a dozen times in the years that I owned that boat and really enjoyed it each time.

Jeff
 
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#7 ·
Jeff....Unless your previous boat was a Cape Dory 26 your advice doesn''t mean squat, especially in a full keel boat like the Cape Dory. In order to have any drive to punch into waves and wind in 30 knots of wind or more you''ll need a head sail, end of story! The boat will be better balanced and make better speed to a harbor of safe refuge. A downhaul and jib halyard led to the cockpit is a good idea.

So you can have a heavy weather jib (storm sail, or what ever you call it) on your boat but waltzingmatilda can''t have one on his boat? Are you implying that waltzingmatilda is not as good of a sailor as you are and can''t handle this sail?

If backpedaling was an Olympic event you''d win a gold medal for this performance!
Boy, the things you read on the internet!
 
#8 ·
Denr,

If you bothered to read posts before you blew your stack and tried to trash them, I think your posts would be of greater value to this community. In waltzingmatilda''s posts, he clarified that he was looking for a sail that could be carried in winds of 50 knots. I suggested that he would probably be better off with a a shallower reef in his mainsail and no jib at that windspeed than with a deeper reef in his mainsail and a storm jib. As you and I both seemed to agree storm jibs were sized somewhere more or less around 50% of his foretriangle. On a 26 footer that is a very small sail and when cut appropriately flat is hard to get to fly properly in a blow.

I have actually weathered a blow in my 26 foot 1939 Stadel Cutter (which was a full keel boat) under a storm staysail and found that the windage of this small sail made it very hard to tack through the wind or find a comfortable angle of attack. The windage of the foresail tried to pull the bow off to leeward but did not seem to provide any real useful drive. When we struck the foresail we were able to thread our way much more easily. I had a similar experience with my 1949 25 foot Folkboat. Although she had a similar hull form to the Cape Dory 26, she was a fractional rig and so does not provide the best example.

My comments intended to be helpful and were based on my own experience owning 6 boats between 25 and 28 feet, full keel, modified fin and fin keelers in a variety of cutter and sloop rigs, you are right that a person who has actually ridden out a 50 mph storm on a Cape Dory 26 with a storm jib would be a more valid source of information. In that regard I would agree that ndsailor''s comments are quite relevant to the discussion. It would be helpful to the discussion if ndsailor could mention in a little more detail the percent of foretriangle of his storm jib and how it is cut and where his sheet leads are located.

As to back pedaling, in my post I suggested that a heavy weather sail sized at 70% to 80% of the foretriangle might work well in windspeeds significantly less than the 50 mph winds waltzingmatilda was concerned with. This is a very different sail for a very different circumstance than the approximately 50% foretriangle storm jib that waltzingmatilda was asking about.

Jeff


waltzingmatilda
 
#9 ·
Gentlemen, thank you both, well, every one of you who have responded to my post about the storm jib. I certainly don''t mean to create a discussion filled with animosity here. But, I do appreciate the comments made by each of you, and for your taking the time to try to help out a fellow with a new (to him) boat, much bigger than he''s ever had before. My searches among the used sail dealers on the web haven''t come up with much in the way of smaller headsails that would fit my boat, and I guess maybe I need to think about exactly what I want. Thanks again to each of you. I''ll respond off the website, directly via email addresses.

Fair winds to each of you,
Peter
 
#13 ·
i don''t believe sailing in 50 knot winds is the way to go. if you have sustained winds of 50 knots i believe you would be much better off throwing out a drogue and going below for a nap. in those winds and the 30-40 foot seas associated with those winds you suffer too much of a chance of pitch poleing down one of the waves.
i believe a storm jib and trysail or deep third reef would work to about 45 knots but most storm jibs are very hard if not impossible to tack. You also get very tired very quickly trying to sail up and down the waves. it gets close to impossible to do on a moonless night.
if you really must have a storm jib i believe the jib should be no more than 5% of the height of the foretriangle squared and maximum luff of 65 % of the height of the foretriangle. the top of the sail should be distress orange . you also need to set up some very strong tracks forward for a correct lead.
eric
 
#14 ·
Perhaps Jeff H could answer this query: He mentioned storm jibs usually have their own sheets permanently spliced to the clew. Are the reasons for this a) to avoid bitter ends from any knots thrashing about and b) to ensure instant and ready availability of sheets when needed? Or are there other reasons? I am acutely aware that we have both trysail and storm jib aboard our boat only launched 6 weeks ago - no sheets fitted -yet - but that so far we haven''t tried them out. I know I should puzzle everybody watching on a nice day soon by trying out the whole set up - and we will - we will (ie how do you effectively lash the main boom down!?). But I was not intending to have dedicated sheets on either of these sails. When we played trysails on a skippers course we did not have dedicated sheets. Are there some good reasons that have passed me by? I would appreciate some wisdom. Thanks.
 
#15 ·
That''s a good question. I am not 100% sure that I know why sheets are normally spliced to storm jibs and I have asked myself this same question.

On one hand it seems as if it would be important to be able to clear a fouled sheet by untying it at the clew, but on the other hand, I have generally conjectured that there were a number of possible reasons that storm jib sheets are spliced onto the sail. The two most compelling reasons that I come up with is that storm jibs tend to flog extremely violently in the high winds that they are used. Having a piece of hardware or knots flogging violently would greatly increase the risk of damage if the clew of the sail hit something. The other big issue, of course, is the risk that the sheet would come undone. Getting storm sails up and down in the harsh conditions that they are used, means that it becomes all the more imperative that the sheets not come loose from the sail.

What ever you do, storm sail sheets should be securely attached and low stretch line for these critical sheets are very important as well.

Jeff
 
#16 ·
1. Most all knots shake loose, even a buntline or a constrictor can loosen when shaken severely. Bowlines are notorious for shaking loose.

2. Splices are much stronger than ANY knot, the strongest knot is probably the Carrick at 80% breaking strengh of the line. Splices approach the full breaking strength of the l ine.

3. Problem with splices is that the chafe will be solely at one single spot (dead center in middle of the eye); with knots you can adjust and retie for chafe. With knots you can keep trimming back into unchafed line. Chafe with splices can be lessened by ''taking two turns'' on the clew iron instead of a simple eye splice. ..... inother words the splice is wrapped around the clew iron a second time to distribute the load and reduce chafe.

I prefer a single sheet (double length) with the line reeved at the middle to the clew. The knot is either a clove hitch or "constrictor" --- small sized knot, adjustable (with difficulty) for chafe. The larger the D-ring or grommet in the clew, the less the chafe.
 
#17 ·
i have had the opportunity,unfortunately, to have my storm sails up a number of times.
both sails have the sheets attached and marked in the sail bag. it is also important to mark the head tack and clew on the sail with magic marker ( both sides of the sail) the worst thing that can happen to one of these sails is to get a twist or hooked up wrong in a blow.

on passages i keep the storm staysail in a bag attached to the stay and ready to go.

we use a single line as a sheet with a simple loop at the clew of the sails.

it is also important to have dedicated cars, and blocks set up and ready to go when the stuff hits the fan.

tying knots and finding the proper lead for a sail should be done at the dock and not at sea. when the wind is really howling the sail leads wind up rubbing against the oddest things. we have leather chaffe gear that is held closed by velcro. this has come in handy a number of times. one tine the trysail sheets were rubbing on the edge of our hard top dodger. when we got into bermuda we had the sailmaker put a longer tack lead on the sail to clear the dodger. also make sure that your sails are well up the mast and stay . when you drop down in a big trough ,if the sails are low, you loose all of your drive.

also make sure that your trysail track comes almost down to the deck.

eric
 
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