Running Rigging Plan - Page 7

Stillraining · #61 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008

Nice job Craig...I have been watching this with interest as I am faced with a redo my self...Next season though..

The one thing I wondered about was the reefs being so far forward of the mast, is there any difficulty with that?...or did they end up farther aft compared to your initial drawings?

craigtoo · #62 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008

Good Question.

The plan changed when we started laying everything out with tape on the deck.

Phase 1 just had the first (single line for now) Reef run aft. Actually it ended up being the mast base block that is just behind the mast almost dead center.

Reef 2 is directly opposite of it. Also very close to the center line and just aft of the mast. It has a new line which is long enough to run aft... I just ran out of money and have no more rope clutch real estate!

In general, as compared to the diagram, the mast base blocks for the sail trim / reefs are all behind the mast and close to center line. The halyard mast base blocks are directly left and right of the mast.

Phase 2 will
add more halyards left and right of the mast,
run Reef 2 back to the cockpit,
add boom end preventers - don't know what that will look like yet
Possibly run 2 line reefing.
Add 2 double line clutches outboard of current clutches.

sailingdog · #63 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008

Craig-

First, if I were you, I would have angled the deck organizers. This makes the lines headed back to the line clutches end group more tightly and take up less deck space—so they're less of a tripping hazard.

I mounted my mastblocks on a modified mast step, so they're off the deck and I didn't need to drill holes for the blocks in the deck. I figure, if the upward pressure on the mast blocks deforms the 3/16" steel plate that was formed using a 70-ton press brake, I'm basically screwed anyways...

Lanocote was a very good idea.

Using it or TefGel is a good idea to help prevent galvanic corrosion between the stainless steel bolts and the aluminum hardware. It looks like you used Harken ESP deck organizers. They're aluminum and really need to have Lanocote on the screws, and mylar washers under the heads of the screws.

Blocks inside the boom aren't necessary if you've got a winch at the end of the line. I got rid of the two-to-one purchase that my boat had for the outhaul, since I've got a ST40 winch at the end of the outhaul line, and am going to be using for the third reef I had put in the main last week.

BTW, when you drill the holes oversized, you're supposed to fill them with thickened epoxy, not just smear epoxy on the inside of the hole. If you are using 1/4" fasteners, you should drill the fastener holes 3/8-1/2" in size, and then fill with thickened epoxy, and then when the epoxy has cured, you drill the 1/4" hole for the fastener. If I were you, I'd go back and properly pot all of the fastener holes—it'll be a PITA, but it will mean your deck won't get wet, rot and delaminate.

There are basically two reasons for doing this. First, the thickened epoxy seals off the core material and prevents water from getting into the core. Second, the thickened epoxy is very strong against compressive forces, so you can tighten down on the bolts and not crush the deck.

Generally, I try not to drill through the inner laminate by drilling the oversized holes using a Forstner bit. If you have the inner laminate intact and use a backing plate or large fender washers, the chances of the hardware coming loose are minute. You should also countersink the top of the fastener hole slightly, which gives the sealant a place to form an "o-ring" and makes the seal very reliable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigtoo

1) Lewmar clutches are backwards....when you open them up there's a little picture of a winch with an arrow. No.. they didn't make a mistake. The winch actually goes there. Moron.

2) Drill oversize holes for all through deck attachments... this is so you can get the epoxy smeared on the exposed deck core. I could have done a better job on this. I'll be re-doing some of my mast base blocks for this reason. I'm losing sleep thinking that I scraped off epoxy as I put the bolt in ... even though I let it dry it was a tight fit...

3) Use 60min epoxy not the 5min stuff. It's "thinner" and really allows you to smear it all over the exposed core better... LOOK FROM THE INSIDE OF THE BOAT OUT AT SUNLIGHT to verify that you've completely coated the core. I was lucky and happened to look up and saw that every hole that I had already epoxied wasn't complete. Went back in and re-smeared.

4) To cover the holes left in the deck by hardware you don't need anymore do what Halekai says...use the finishing washer. Looks great and it's easy.

5) Get Butyl Tape...I was pulling off 20 year old deck organizers and the stuff still looked like Melted Pizza Cheese - Never Leaked. I'll be re-seating with Butyl this winter. I couldn't find it locally and I didn't plan in advance enough to order it online. I used another adhesive which I won't mention. It wasn't 5200 (Is that the super strong one from 3M?) but.. it wasn't the 4200 either...(The one I should have used... DOH!) Hello Winter Project...

6) I put a "Lanacote" barrier (like a grease) between all Aluminum and Stainless interfaces. (Bolts to hardware) ... I hope that's a good idea...

7) I would probably move my mast base blocks used for the sail trim (outhaul, reefs, cunningham etc.) closer to the mast - towards the bow. I placed them directly under where the line exits the boom, but they interfere now (somewhat and nothing bad at all) with the boom kicker when you're on a run. It doesn't look as neat.

8) You can talk Westmarine into an amazing discount... I beat every online price by 10% (and I'm talking shopping cart prices not MAP).... just brought the printouts with me and I had *everything* in less than 24 hours. (I think I had 1 special order which they FedEx'd for me from SanFran on their nickel.) No, the service wasn't amazing... the staff wasn't super knowledgeable... but I felt as if I got a good deal. (This was in Annapolis...)

9) Definitely start a running rigging rebuild with the end in mind. Plan Plan Plan... If you just start moving stuff around and mounting hardware you'll have a disaster on your hands in no time.

10) Boom Vangs are not to be attached to Through bolted U-Bolts on deck. While this may look very sexy and keep the vang block low so that sending the line to the organizer is easy.... it will bend. Yep. Bend. If you look in the after pic above you'll see the u-bolt in the middle of the mast base blocks with the small teak shim block (for angle). It is bent..... And now the vang is attached to a bail at the base of the mast... which meant I had to raise my kicker... crap... bunch of extra work there...

11) Blocks inside a boom are crap. crap. crap. Apparently, I had a 4:1 outhaul and didn't know it. The blocks in the boom were so worn (probably from lack of maintenance.. because THEY WERE IN THE FREAKING BOOM....) I never even noticed the advantage... I had to use a winch to move the sail. So the new design has a tiny wire block attached to the clue and my wire exits the boom on the sheave and goes through the block and is attached to the end of the boom. It's neat and clean and serviceable. It was a nightmare trying to fish the new outhaul lines through because the stupid blocks kept getting in the way...

12) Sailkote is great

As I think of more.. I'll post.

Thanks again to all...

craig

craigtoo · #64 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Craig-

First, if I were you, I would have angled the deck organizers. This makes the lines headed back to the line clutches end group more tightly and take up less deck space—so they're less of a tripping hazard.

Yeah... I remember you mentioning that. However, the Harken organizers had the identical hole pattern to the original Schafer so I didn't want to add holes in that area. Then, to be symmetrical I just did a mirror image on the other side.

I mounted my mastblocks on a modified mast step, so they're off the deck and I didn't need to drill holes for the blocks in the deck. I figure, if the upward pressure on the mast blocks deforms the 3/16" steel plate that was formed using a 70-ton press brake, I'm basically screwed anyways...

I thought about that solution. In the end, it came down to looks. Totally a personal preference. I wanted the standalone Harken turning blocks. Too often I see a "birds nest" of blocks attached to that baseplate. ...And yes I know there are ones out there that are more rigid...Sabre doesn't recommend attaching heavy loads to that base and I believe my solution was easier than replacing / redesigning that baseplate. But I totally see your point.

Lanocote was a very good idea.

Using it or TefGel is a good idea to help prevent galvanic corrosion between the stainless steel bolts and the aluminum hardware. It looks like you used Harken ESP deck organizers. They're aluminum and really need to have Lanocote on the screws, and mylar washers under the heads of the screws.

Of COURSE! All done.

Blocks inside the boom aren't necessary if you've got a winch at the end of the line. I got rid of the two-to-one purchase that my boat had for the outhaul, since I've got a ST40 winch at the end of the outhaul line, and am going to be using for the third reef I had put in the main last week.

BTW, when you drill the holes oversized, you're supposed to fill them with thickened epoxy, not just smear epoxy on the inside of the hole. If you are using 1/4" fasteners, you should drill the fastener holes 3/8-1/2" in size, and then fill with thickened epoxy, and then when the epoxy has cured, you drill the 1/4" hole for the fastener. If I were you, I'd go back and properly pot all of the fastener holes—it'll be a PITA, but it will mean your deck won't get wet, rot and delaminate.

Yeah... that is definitely in the plan. All hardware will be removed, holes potted and then Butyl tape will be used (or the 4200 is that it?) to waterproof it.

There are basically two reasons for doing this. First, the thickened epoxy seals off the core material and prevents water from getting into the core. Second, the thickened epoxy is very strong against compressive forces, so you can tighten down on the bolts and not crush the deck.

Generally, I try not to drill through the inner laminate by drilling the oversized holes using a Forstner bit. If you have the inner laminate intact and use a backing plate or large fender washers, the chances of the hardware coming loose are minute.

Good stuff... thanks... Sabre also put aluminum plates in the areas where High load deck hardware like winches and clutches would be mounted.

You should also countersink the top of the fastener hole slightly, which gives the sealant a place to form an "o-ring" and makes the seal very reliable.

That I did....! Thanks SD....

sailingdog · #65 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008

Glad to to help.

sailingfool · #66 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008

FWIW on my CS 36T I have 3/8 on all my control lines like traveller, vang, pole lift, foreguy. 3/8 is fine on the hand and anything bigger for your boat would be a waste of money, and a lot of money if you want blocks tht will run 1/2 or 7/8 smoothly. Pole controls are pretty much set and forget...my foreguy trims through a clutch and works fine without any leverage or turns. The pole lift runs through a clutch to a winch, needed mostly just for lifting the heavy pole...

sailingdog · #67 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008

I agree, and I've standardized all the lines on my boat to be 3/8" lines. The only ones that aren't ATM are the genny sheets, but when I replace them next season, they'll be 3/8" lines as well. Already replaced the mainsheet, topping lift, main sail halyard, spinnaker halyard, boom vang, etc.

I'm also slowly color coordinating the sheets and halyards to make things a bit less confusing. The main sail halyard and main sheet are both white with blue flecks. The spinnaker sheets and halyard are white with red flecks, the genoa halyard and sheets will be white with green flecks.

The topping lift, boom vang, boom break and such will be white or black. The reefing lines will be paired off with red fleck, green fleck and blue flecks for the first, second and third reefs—I'm recycling the old halyards for use for the reefing lines for the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfool

FWIW on my CS 36T I have 3/8 on all my control lines like traveller, vang, pole lift, foreguy. 3/8 is fine on the hand and anything bigger for your boat would be a waste of money, and a lot of money if you want blocks tht will run 1/2 or 7/8 smoothly. Pole controls are pretty much set and forget...my foreguy trims through a clutch and works fine without any leverage or turns. The pole lift runs through a clutch to a winch, needed mostly just for lifting the heavy pole...

Faster · #68 (**permalink**) 07-07-2008

Nice job, Craig!

craigtoo · #69 (**permalink**) 07-07-2008

Thanks Fast!

I've run everything 3/8 except halyards... They are 10mm T-900
Main Sheet is 1/2 fuzzy comfy line.

Main sail halyard is Green Fleck (I thought everyone's was...) and it's on the Starboard side along with the first reef.

[place tongue in cheek]

SD
I STRONGLY RECOMMEND YOU IMMEDIATELY RE-RUN your MAIN HALYARD TO BE GREEN FLECK AND BE SURE IT IS ON THE STARBOARD SIDE. If someone is crewing with you who is accustomed to the regular set-up needs to reef the main while you are busy fighting the helm in a sudden surprise squall with strong seas, visibility at zero, during the night, when you're in a busy shipping channel, the last thing you want is a delay in getting that reef in. Additionally, I've noticed on another thread that you didn't add the glow in the dark labels saying "pull here to release" to the fore-end of your line clutches allowing said crew member to instantly release said halyard in said conditions...(I mean....considering they are backwards and all wouldn't that be prudent?)

...can I get a Bite me?

Primary Jib is red fleck on Port.

My control lines are just pretty. I wanted lots of colors. I didn't get yellow yet. Cunningham is black, Outhaul is Blue, Vang is Blue Fleck, You see my traveler lines there at red and green. (I know solid colors will fade. I don't care they look cool now!)

Yellow will be for Chute stuff.. Halyard or pole controls.

...and wait till you guys see my "Christmas Jacks"... I'm working out the bugs of my custom Lazy-Jacks now... I may even put lights on them. (Yes I'll run the switches aft so I don't have to go forward in a snow storm to turn off the lights...)

Thanks again guys!

craig

camaraderie · #70 (**permalink**) 07-07-2008

Nice work Craig and great documentation for others. Thanks!