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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #21  
Old 06-02-2008
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What I meant is that "flat" jacketed wire is not always flat enough. It is much thicker and less flexible than bonded ribbon type wire.

Here is an example of marine ribbon two-conductor -
Ancor 16/2 Flat Ribbon Cable Red/Black - 153110 - BoatersWorld.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Halekai-

My post was directed towards Brak, who mentioned that it was difficult to find flat duplex wire.
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2008
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In all fairness, I have not read the article yet. I certanly agree that tinned wire is the way to go, 100%. No matter what I am re-wiring, I use tinned wire. However, for "practial purposes", there is a lot of non tinned wire but I am not going to go and rip it off. I monitor it as best as I can. Granted, I can only monitor the ends of the cable, but it usually the corrosion starts on the ends of the cable, so I have a somewhat good feel of what is going on and it is a risk and I am willing to take. This is the key point, the terminals & splices (if you have them).....if they are sealed good enough, then they should last a long time, but not all average joe's make a good enough job to seal them.

Also, the insulation of the cable says a lot. If it is degrading, then it is bad quality cable and needs to be replaced. The cable on Hal's pics is LOW quality cable and has to go for sure, no matter if it is showing corrosion or not.

Hal I agree with your rant about tinned being far superior 100%. I might cut some slack to PS from the practical point of view.....remember that I have not read the article. If I have non-tinned wire, and there are no signs of corrosion on it, I leave it along and I guess it is a risk that pretty much all of us take at one point or another.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2008
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Originally Posted by xtatico1404 View Post
I might cut some slack to PS from the practical point of view.....
This month was especially practical they had "Tined Wire Myth Busted" which is practical I guess? Then in the same issue they had an article on night vision "thermal imaging" cameras for boats.

The least expensive model made is a fixed view that you can't even move or rotate for $5000.00! That's a lot of tinned wire!!The next model up in the line, and the one they liked, is $9000.00! Oh, and the best part of these units they DON'T even work well in the fog so yes you will still need radar...!


Yeah real practical chap out on your wire so you can afford "star wars" for your boat??


P.S. How many boaters are going to spend more than $1.00 EACH for heat shrink crimp connectors and then cheap out on the wire???
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2008
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I rarely bother with heat shrink, though. It is just too hard to properly shrink. Never had any luck with hair dryers. I do own a little butane torch, but even with that most heat shrinks will only shrink on one side or more one one side than the other or burn or whatever. I wish they worked as advertised.
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  #25  
Old 06-02-2008
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I rarely bother with heat shrink, though. It is just too hard to properly shrink. Never had any luck with hair dryers. I do own a little butane torch, but even with that most heat shrinks will only shrink on one side or more one one side than the other or burn or whatever. I wish they worked as advertised.

Brak,

Even heating while spinning the crimp & wire between your fingers and KEEP THE TORCH MOVING!! I just installed over 40 heat shrink crimp connectors in the last five days and every one was done with my mini butane torch, I prefer my heat gun but in 40 crimps I ruined none...

Patience!!

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  #26  
Old 06-03-2008
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The ready heat shrink image in your post has incorrect link (but I loaded it and it looks good).

I understand the technique but they take too much work So I leave them for where I actually have to use them. In most places they are installed on terminals which go onto the open terminal block anyway, so there isn't much point in sealing. I do places that are exposed to moisture, propane locker of course etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
Brak,

Even heating while spinning the crimp & wire between your fingers and KEEP THE TORCH MOVING!! I just installed over 40 heat shrink crimp connectors in the last five days and every one was done with my mini butane torch, I prefer my heat gun but in 40 crimps I ruined none...

Patience!!
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2008
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Originally Posted by brak View Post
The ready heat shrink image in your post has incorrect link (but I loaded it and it looks good).

I understand the technique but they take too much work So I leave them for where I actually have to use them. In most places they are installed on terminals which go onto the open terminal block anyway, so there isn't much point in sealing. I do places that are exposed to moisture, propane locker of course etc.
If you are using tinned wire it's not AS BIG of a deal but, open terminal block or not, a heat shrink connector keeps air bound moisture or humidity (75% on my boat the other day BTW) from creeping into the wire ends.

All my terminal block crimps are heat shrunk then then the entire terminal block is sprayed with Boeshield. They will still look just as good in ten years doing this.

As for takes to long? It takes me about 45 seconds per termination to crimp and heat shrink?? Not much for patience huh?

This is an interesting photo of a WIRE NUT connection I found hidden on my boat! It was un-tinned wire joined to tinned wire. Notice the difference between the un-tinned and tinned. It speaks for its self!



Here's why you must ALWAYS use the proper wire gauge! The brown lamp cord was 18 ga and wired to a pump. Note the melting of the jacket due to over heating!!


If you are using heat shrink connectors these are the crimpers you'll want to use. This pair is distributed by Ancor Products and are called the "Single Crimp Ratchet Tool" Part No. 702010. I paid about $55.00 for this crimper at Hamilton Marine in Portland, Maine.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 06-03-2008 at 10:37 AM.
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  #28  
Old 06-03-2008
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Well, one day when I am done with other projects - I can deal with heat shrinking on these terminals Boeshield is good - I spray my engine with it.

Here, btw is the crimping tool I use - it's not as precise but works great:

makes for an easy job crimping anything from 16 gauge to 2.
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  #29  
Old 06-03-2008
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Originally Posted by brak View Post
Well, one day when I am done with other projects - I can deal with heat shrinking on these terminals Boeshield is good - I spray my engine with it.

Here, btw is the crimping tool I use - it's not as precise but works great:

makes for an easy job crimping anything from 16 gauge to 2.
Brak that is "one size fits all" a dimple crimper and as such should be used to crimp un-insulated terminals. Some will say "insulated and non-insulated" but dimple crimpers do not make the same crimp on insulated terminals as a double crimper or a crimper designed for heat shrink terminals. Also a good quality crimper will have jaws to fit the three colors of insulated terminals Yellow, Blue and Red.

Precision machined jaws will not rip expensive heat shrink terminals:


Dimple crimpers will:



I made a crimp with my Klein crimper/strippers and one with a my Ancor Products "Single Crimp Ratcheting Crimper". I then cut the crimped terminals open with my Dremel tool and took a peak.
The crimp on the left was made with my Anchor Ratcheting crimper which is a very decent quality crimper and the crimp on the right was made with my Klein "dimple crimper" a very mediocre crimper but also the type most boat owners use to make crimped connections.
I now understand why many boaters think "air" can get into a crimp and corrode it. If you look at he crimp on the right, made with the "cheap" crimper, you can still see strands of copper wire. The crimp on the left is far superior and has in fact "cold formed" (wire and crimp have become one), similar to what happens when you swage standing rigging. I think the photo speaks for its self. A well built crimping tool is well worth the money!

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 06-03-2008 at 11:49 AM.
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  #30  
Old 06-03-2008
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Interesting photo The tool I use is actually quite expensive
I don't use the dimple part for insulated/heat shrink fittings though, rather (as the tool itself suggests) I use the flat part (looks like two sections of a circle, deeper into the tool). As far as size goes, tool is sized for wire 16 and up - so it isn't universal but I really don't have many smaller fittings on the boat, and I do own a standard (also non-dimple) crimper for those.

I haven't cut the fittings though it may be interesting to see, but I do know that they are crimped flat. I might sacrifice one this weekend to see what it looks like inside.
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