Bubbles in my epoxy - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #11  
Old 06-10-2008
Irrationally Exuberant
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,301
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 8
arf145 is on a distinguished road
After reading your responses, I Googled the issue--I had no idea this was so common. Sounds like besides aiming for falling temps, I could go for either slower hardener to let the bubbles pop while the mix is still liquid and add as needed like I've been doing, or go for fast hardener so there is less time to bubble. I don't think I'm going to be applying a vacuum to my epoxy mix--I'm barely able to avoid bonding myself to the boat as it is, who knows what kind of mischief I'd get into by adding a vacuum step to the process!

BTW, the epoxying in question was done before the recent east coast extreme heat, but I didn't do the work at dusk or anything, so I would think my temp was rising rather than dropping. I'll try to time that in the future.

Thanks for the suggestions.
__________________
Tom K

2000 Beneteau 331
Northern Chesapeake Bay

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy ~ Steven Wright
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 06-11-2008
KeelHaulin's Avatar
STARBOARD!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
KeelHaulin will become famous soon enough KeelHaulin will become famous soon enough
I have not worked with the MAS epoxy/medium hardener; but the West with fast hardener literally foams when mixed. I don't know why; but even with careful mixing I was having problems with a sloppy foam forming in the mixing cup when making micro-fiber thickened epoxy. The outside temperature was not a huge issue (sometimes it did not kick for a few hours because it was almost too cold) but the mixed epoxy would get hot in the cup and form a solid blob in the center (sometimes in the syringe) due to the reaction heat being generated.

I managed to pot all of the deck penetrations using the West/fast combo; when the bubbles appeared in the filled holes I would poke them with a skewer to break up the bubbles and add more epoxy. When the foam formed in the cup I would use the syringe to suck out the epoxy beneath the foam; that usually helped prevent so much air from going into the holes I was backfilling. I did not worry too much about small bubbles; the object is to backfill the hole so that the bolt will have a sleeve of plastic surrounding it; the bedding compound will fill in any voids along the sleeve and at the deck surface.

Also be sure that the hole you are filling is large enough. If you try to fill a very small hole (less than 3/8") the hole will get an air bubble trapped in the bottom; then it will either remain trapped or break the surface after you are finished. Either enlarge the hole to allow easier filling or poke the wet epoxy with a skewer to help break out the trapped bubbles.

Call MAS and ask them if there is a way to prevent the foaming (if that is what you are getting).
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 06-11-2008
arbarnhart's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
arbarnhart is on a distinguished road
Thinking this all through and based on my experience (scratch built 2 small boats; repaired lots of things boat related; used epoxy in many more applications non boat related)...

I think high temps are fine for epoxy as long as the material isn't getting hotter while the epoxy is setting. But until yesterday I didn't realize how important that last part is.
I only used quick cure once for void filling and never will again; I think that is problematic because of the temperature issue. I also had the "glob" problem with quick set. I was using Raka, but I don't think brand choice is all that relevant (that's a tweaky thing and the problems with quick set and void filling won't get fixed by tweaking). I think the "foam" is outgassing at a high rate.
Most of the time, thickened epoxy should still be runny. Obviously there are exceptions when you have to fill holes that would let it run out. But if you thicken it so much it will hold a shape, then if a bubble gets in there it will hold that shape.

Oh, BTW, I have some pieces of fiberglass rod salvaged from an old tent. If I have to fill a hole larger than the rod's diameter, I cut a little piece and epoxy it into the hole with the end below the surface.

Keep in mind that I didn't make the "expert's list" so my opinion may be subject to correction. But I would argue the point about not using quick cure for void filling very adamantly.
__________________
-Andy
Newport 17 - "Kohanna"
At sea Darwin's hypotheses is the final arbiter of right of way.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 06-11-2008
JohnRPollard's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 5,680
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by arbarnhart View Post
Oh, BTW, I have some pieces of fiberglass rod salvaged from an old tent. If I have to fill a hole larger than the rod's diameter, I cut a little piece and epoxy it into the hole with the end below the surface.

Keep in mind that I didn't make the "expert's list" so my opinion may be subject to correction. But I would argue the point about not using quick cure for void filling very adamantly.
That's a clever idea about the tent poles.

I agree about the fast catalyst -- when tackling tricky jobs, for most amateurs it is not sufficiently forgiving. It's more commonly mixed with medium catalyst in sub-nominal temps to hasten curing.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

NEVER CALLS CRUISINGDAD BACK....CAN"T TAKE THE ACCENT
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 06-11-2008
SailorMitch's Avatar
Senior Moment
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MD
Posts: 1,931
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
SailorMitch will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeelHaulin View Post
I
Call MAS and ask them if there is a way to prevent the foaming (if that is what you are getting).
yes, call the mas guys they aregreat to deal with and always helpful.
__________________
SailorMitch
Sailing winged keels since 1989.
1.20.09 Bush's last day the end of an error !! Hopefully we still have a constitution and economy left by then.


"Compassion and tolerance are not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength." The Dalai Lama


good planets are hard to find-- a song by steve forbert


I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging the future but by the past.-- Patrick Henry.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low Maintenance Brightwork: Varnish or Linear Polyurethane over Epoxy? Spencer28 Gear & Maintenance 9 09-14-2011 10:44 AM
Keel Fairing BarryL Gear & Maintenance 34 03-21-2008 10:15 AM
What's the best way to epoxy in plywood? duffer1960 Gear & Maintenance 8 05-29-2006 06:34 PM
Epoxy on Carvel planking crkelly Gear & Maintenance 2 03-10-2001 08:39 AM
Filling Holes with Epoxy Sue & Larry Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 09-25-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:22 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.