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  #1  
Old 06-12-2008
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Replace swage fittings and add a toggle?

So, my survey came back with I need to attend to the standing rigging. Surveyor listed under "Recommendations," "The standing rigging lower swaged terminals appear to be the age of the vessel and show surface crevice corrosion. At a minimum the lower end fittings should be cut off and the lower
terminals replaced with a swaged or other style terminals, toggles added as necessary to restore rigging length."

Speaking with the surveyor, he basically told me that this is something that should be attended to sooner than later but he had no concerns putting this boat out in San Francisco bay. BoatUS Insurance company came back with a 'no navigation' policy until I address the above.

So, my question is, has anyone heard of doing the above with the bottom terminals? The only consideration I am giving this is that I would be able to replace the bottom terminals myself. Where does one even find the toggles he speaks of? I see that my forestay has a 90 degree toggle but find nothing when looking for these online.

Thank you for your time.
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Old 06-12-2008
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Here ya go.... Rigging only home page

Not a big deal to do.

If you have never put one togather...find a scrap piece of 1x19 and practice...You are going to find cutting the cable to be the hardest part of the job.

This one is from our own Sailnet store..
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Last edited by Stillraining; 06-12-2008 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 06-12-2008
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DGR...did the surveyor climb the mast and inspect the top terminals? If the whole rig is old...may I suggest that you replace the whole rig rather than have it come down after you've installed new lower terminals.
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Old 06-12-2008
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I'd second cam's suggestion of replacing the whole rig.
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Old 06-13-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgr View Post
So, my survey came back with I need to attend to the standing rigging. Surveyor listed under "Recommendations," "The standing rigging lower swaged terminals appear to be the age of the vessel and show surface crevice corrosion. At a minimum the lower end fittings should be cut off and the lower
terminals replaced with a swaged or other style terminals, toggles added as necessary to restore rigging length."

Speaking with the surveyor, he basically told me that this is something that should be attended to sooner than later but he had no concerns putting this boat out in San Francisco bay. BoatUS Insurance company came back with a 'no navigation' policy until I address the above.

So, my question is, has anyone heard of doing the above with the bottom terminals? The only consideration I am giving this is that I would be able to replace the bottom terminals myself. Where does one even find the toggles he speaks of? I see that my forestay has a 90 degree toggle but find nothing when looking for these online.

Thank you for your time.
Drg, What exactly is the age of the vessel?
Where has the boat spent most of it's time since new?
Did your surveyor go aloft to inspect the entire rig?

To answer your question. Yes, it's not an uncommon practice at all to cut the bottom swage off and then install another fitting in it's place.
The point that Cam brought up is very important though.
If your top terminals have problems, what is the point in only replacing the bottom ones.
If your wire has problems, again, the whole rig should be replaced.
If you do decide to just do the bottoms and are going to do it yourself, then your only real option is to use mechanical fittings. Some of the mechanicals are extra long to make up for what wire you've lost in the old swage. Thereby avoiding the use of toggles.

You stated that the swages in question showed surface crevice corrosion. In my mind that is not the same as swage cracks.

Did you hire the surveyor? Was the survey done to acquire insurance? Did you just buy the boat and thus the survey?

I can't tell you how many times I have been hired to perform a rigging inspection on vessels that have just undergone a survey. Sometime they just didn't want to go aloft. Sometimes it was that the buyer didn't trust the sellers surveyor. There are lots of different reasons. Once a surveyor condemned a rig on a Catalina 27 because of "bananna swages" (curved swages). This was a relativity new rig built by Catalina. Or at least came with the boat.
I don't like bad swages either and curved ones aren't good, but almost every Catalina of that range around that time had them. It didn't need to be condemned. Hell, they were selling them new that way.
You may want to consider having a rigger or your own trusted surveyor check out the rigging.
One last point. Right now we have a re rig in the works on a Hunter. On my very first trip aloft I noticed that the wire had numerous spot of heavy rust. Almost every one of these spots, upon close examination revealed a broken strand of wire. And we didn't find a single cracked swage on the entire rig. And This is a B&R rig. There are lots of terminals.

Steve
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Old 06-14-2008
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Everyone, thank you for your insight on this.

The boat was built in 1970. All indications are that it spent its entire life in the San Francisco bay. The surveyor did not go aloft. This was a C&V survey for insurance. I hired the surveyor and I just purchased the boat.

I called a couple places to get a rough estimate on replacing the four top stays. I think I can do the four lowers myself. The price varied from $1000 to $2000. Does this seem to be in the ball park?

Thank you
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Old 06-14-2008
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Dgr-

Hard to say without knowing what kind of boat it is... if it is a 54' Amel, then the quote is pretty low... if it is a 25' Cape Dory, the quote sounds quite a bit high.

30 years is a pretty long time for a salt water rig.
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Old 06-16-2008
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Doh! How about a 28' Columbia. The mast is around 32' off the deck.
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Old 06-16-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgr View Post
Everyone, thank you for your insight on this.

The boat was built in 1970. All indications are that it spent its entire life in the San Francisco bay. The surveyor did not go aloft. This was a C&V survey for insurance. I hired the surveyor and I just purchased the boat.

I called a couple places to get a rough estimate on replacing the four top stays. I think I can do the four lowers myself. The price varied from $1000 to $2000. Does this seem to be in the ball park?

Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgr View Post
Doh! How about a 28' Columbia. The mast is around 32' off the deck.
You say that you will do the lowers yourself. Does this mean that you are going to remove them and have them fabricated by a rigger? Or do you have the means to make them up your self?
If you do, then why not do the uppers and the stays as well.



$1000 - $2000 may seem like a large range but I am assuming that the rigger will be coming to the boat at least once, probably twice.
If you have a furler, it will have to come down to have the wire replaced. He doesn't know what he is going to find when he get to your boat.
He's probably just covering his butt.
Ask him if he is charging for the job or for time and materials.
Be there to help and keep track of the time.


Personally, I would rather give someone a high estimate so that I will usually come in under. But at the same time, I try to make it clear that it's probably going to be less. I don't want to scare them off.

Steve
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Old 06-17-2008
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knothead,
Because I am a wimp. 20' is about my limit.

There is no furler. I understood it'd have to be a very rough quote. I was just kinda surprised the more expensive guy said I'd be in it about $1000 for the materials. However, I do agree with you that it is better to estimate higher and come in low. I'm just leary of someone justifing a price that comes in exactly at the max of the quote because, "that's the price I told you." And the higher quoter stated that it'd be about $1000 in hardware. I'm a little jaded this week. We're fighting with a vendor over a 160k SOW that's about 80K in effort. I'll be going with the more expensive quote as this rigging company is highly regarded in this area.

Thanks for all your help
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