SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Do I need a radar reflector?

19K views 61 replies 26 participants last post by  sailingdog 
#1 ·
I plan to sail my new boat on the St-Lawrence river where cargos are frequently present. I am installing a radar reflector but was wondering why the aluminium mast does not reflect radar itself? I am just curious to understand the difference especially since my reflector seems to also be made of aluminium??? Thanks for any source of info.:confused:
 
#3 ·
I read an article where they tested radar reflectors. Many performed very poorly. There are active ones that listen for a signal and shoot a beam back with a transmitter. They are very effective. The amount of fog, night time sailing, and proximity to commercial traffic would help decide if the cost is worth it.
 
#4 ·
US Sailing and the RORC have both performed tests on radar reflectors. Both sets of tests seem to indicate that the Davis type, (round interlocking panels that create "pockets") mounted in a "catch rain" position is among the most effective passive reflectors available. It's also one of the less expensive. Actual results can vary because of the way the reflector is mounted, the angle of heel of the boat, the height of waves, and a lot of other technical stuff. We used ours last week in Buzzards Bay with about 200' of visibility, and were glad to have it deployed.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Speaking as someone..

Speaking as someone from the foggy state of Maine all I can say is YES!

Radar likes right angles and flat surfaces to reflect signal back. Rounded masts are not a good reflector. While many boats do show up without a reflector the target definition and target itself on screen is usually quite small and can be mistaken for a lobster pot or buoy or sea clutter. Make your boat show up on someones radar screen and definitely buy a reflector..

Oh never mind I'll just show you. I took this photo a few weeks ago at my mooring during the set up and install of my new Garmin HD radar that replaced a Raytheon CRT unit.

The target labeled in red as "C-30" is a Catalina 30 with no radar reflector. The much bigger target labeled in green as "M-28" is a Morris 28 with a radar reflector. Hopefully seeing is believing...!

LOOK BIG!!
 
#13 ·
Speaking as someone from the foggy state of Maine all I can say is YES!

Radar likes right angles and flat surfaces to reflect signal back. Rounded masts are not a good reflector. While many boats do show up without a reflector the target definition and target itself on screen is usually quite small and can be mistaken for a lobster pot or buoy or sea clutter. Make your boat show up on someones radar screen and definitely buy a reflector..

Oh never mind I'll just show you. I took this photo a few weeks ago at my mooring during the set up and install of my new Garmin HD radar that replaced a Raytheon CRT unit.

The target labeled in red as "C-30" is a Catalina 30 with no radar reflector. The much bigger target labeled in green as "M-28" is a Morris 28 with a radar reflector. Hopefully seeing is believing...!

LOOK BIG!!
A good post.

- CD
 
#6 · (Edited)
I bought one today; SD convinced me when he was on my boat a few weeks ago, and he also gave me some tips on mounting the reflector gained from his experience. Thanks again Dawg!



You know, I still have not read SD's post linked in his signature that he keeps telling everyone to read. :eek:

Edit: Hal, that radar screen looks sweet; it puts my 1997 model to shame. I guess I will add HD radar to the list!
 
#7 ·
Edit: Hal, that radar screen looks sweet; it puts my 1997 model to shame. I guess I will add HD radar to the list!
And that was "out of the box" auto settings! I had not even begun to tweak or play with the settings! I really do like it but the Garmin instructions for radar are NON-EXISTENT!! Not kidding they don't have ANY!!!

If you buy a Garmin you better already know how to operate a radar and what the lingo means cause they won't tell ya.....
 
#8 ·
I am definitely of the belief that you want to do everything that you can to make yourself visible to the big guys. Even if a reflector didn't do much, I would feel better having it up there. I am hoping to do a test on my boat from another boat with a CRT, with and without reflector at different ranges. I know from running my radar that different boats give vastly different returns, but the best are from the bouys that have the chambers like the Davis (we call them Cormorant motels).

Hal- I noticed that in your screen shot you don't have a "cone" at your location, are you mast mounted or pole? Excellent picture, how do you like color radar for night use, is there a different palette like on a plotter?

John
 
#9 ·
i put two up above my top spreader - they are round and attache to the stays - one on each side

had an interesting example on why 2 - recently was coming north in the ocean and another sailboat was following me - we both had our sails up and as he went from my starboard to hard off my port as he went more towards land i lost his footprint on my radar at times - we had talked on radio a bit and i asked if he had 1 or 2 reflectors as as long as i could see the reflector my radar could track it but when his sail covered it - it was a spotty reception and at times i would lose his track all together - i tired using marpa but it would at times tell me no signal - 2 reflectors up high take care of that problem as well as the heeling problem
just my opinion
chuck and svsoulmates
ki4sry
on the hook cambridge md
 
#10 ·
A Caution

Radar deflectors in my opinion are one more of those aux gears you can have to make safe voyage passages (and yes I have on on my Barberis). However, nothing accounts more on a boat than standing proper visual watches - anywhere you transit. Odds are on a sailboat under sail - you are the one that needs to get out of the way - not the other way around.
 
#12 ·
However, nothing accounts more on a boat than standing proper visual watches - anywhere you transit. Odds are on a sailboat under sail - you are the one that needs to get out of the way - not the other way around.
Unless you sail in this stuff often then your ears and senses become as important as your eyes..;)

 
#11 ·
Max-on's radar unit is an old CRT unit from about WWII. :)

Right angles, corners, and hard edges are what you want to maximize radar returns.

One of my friends, who worked at Aberdeen, once told me that a B52 bomber, although much larger than an 1980s F150 pickup truck, has a far lower radar signature, since the truck is all right angles and flat surfaces with hard edges...

BTW, getting one larger radar reflector is better than getting two smaller ones, since the smaller ones used together can often partially cancel each other out from what I understand.
 
#18 ·
Had a huge whalewatching boat on my transom once when we hit a "wall" of zero visibility, he reported that my cheap Davis reflector was working well and he'd give me a little more room as I'd requested. I could hear him getting closer to the point I couldn't hear anything ahead so I'd radio'd to make sure my "Tinfoil Hat" was working and ask him to back off. Without radar sometimes you have to keep watch with your ears.
 
#20 ·
I was going to mention the possibility of a tin foil hat as kind of a poor crazy man's reflector, but this seems like a serious discussion :)
 
#21 ·
I was going to mention the possibility of a tin foil hat as kind of a poor crazy man's reflector, but this seems like a serious discussion
Practical sailor did test tin or aluminum foil and it really didn't work.
 
#22 ·
Free's also tested his hat.... :)

No, the problem with cans and foil is that they don't have large flat surface areas of sufficient density. They also don't really have the sharp angular corners and edges that a Davis Echomaster does.
 
#25 ·
First time I met Cam, he had one of those tin foil hats on. I asked him why he was wearing it. I assumed it was a radar reflector. But no! Cam said, "Aliens from Outer Space, CD. They been wanting to sexually assault me. The hat keeps them away."

Weird, I thought. Probably keeps the women away too.

Then I saw him a week later. He was not wearing his hat. I asked him why. He said, "Didn't work."

Eeewwww! Freaky!

Here he is before the abduction:



- CD

PS I guess this thread has now officially gone off topic???
 
#27 ·
CD-

at least the OP got a good answer before the thread derailed. :)
 
#30 ·
Cam-

Wouldn't that be Grills with attached C400??? The big stone and brick BBQ Pit probably helps a lot with the radar return.
 
#32 ·
I'd like to thank Chuck for the 2-reflectors story. I just bought a Beneteau 505 that came with the last small "piece" of a radar reflector still attached. I will definitely be replacing it with 2 reflectors. (Not sure how I'll get them above my top spreader, it HIGH up there!)
 
#36 ·
Greetings

We are recreational sailors. We sail in New Brunswick, Canada and the coast of Maine. We see LOTS of fog. (We also have beautiful clear blue hot days - so don't be afraid of this area)

Radar reflectors, unless they are very good ones, can give you a very scary sense of protection. An excellent paper of the usefulness of reflectors can be found here:

http://www.ybw.com/pbo/pdfs/radar_reflectors.pdf

We have just upgraded to an Irwin Citation 34, but our 28 foot Tanzer had radar, radar reflectors, GPS, chart plotter and AIS. We don't like surprises. I want to know what is out there and who they are.

Never assume the radar reflector will keep you safe. Relying on a reflector assumes:

  1. the other guy has radar
  2. the other guy has his radar turned on
  3. the other guy is looking at his radar
  4. your reflector is giving his radar a target

Pretty big assumptions!

Be aware, keep proper lookouts and stay out of the big guys way!
 
#37 · (Edited)
Yep...

Greetings

We are recreational sailors. We sail in New Brunswick, Canada and the coast of Maine. We see LOTS of fog.
Yep!!!!!

Never assume the radar reflector will keep you safe. Relying on a reflector assumes:
  1. the other guy has radar
Even in Maine it's less than 50%!!!!!

2. the other guy has his radar turned on.
Now we're down to 25% with radar..!!

3. the other guy is looking at his radar
Crap now we're down to 15% and half of those can't see the targets cause the display is 10 feet away in the cabin and their glasses are steamed up!

4. your reflector is giving his radar a target.
Your odds of this are much higher than the others!! I've yet to see a boat with a reflector, even a crappy one or "lesser performing one", give worse returns than a boat with none...

Considering I usually put in lots and lots of hours per season in thick fog this is what I feel really helps.

Display at the helm
Radar overlay
Automated fog horn
Nose, ears eyes and polarized glasses
VHF turned ON

Last weekend; rain fog and 8 knots on the nose welcome to Maine:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top