Can I use uncovered 12 strand for halyards?

zz4gta · #1 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

I need to replace my spin halyard and wanted to know if I could use 3/16 or 1/4" AmSteel. Then I thought while I'm there, I should probably do all the halyards. Any problems with not having a cover? I'd like these lines to last 5 years of cruising and racing maybe once a month. How do they do on abrasion resistance?

sailingdog · #2 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

While the spectra/dyneema based lines are fairly UV and abrasion resistant, there are issues with using 12-strand for halyards. First, they will lose a lot of strength if they chafe at all...since they don't have a protective outer braid to take the damage. Second, they'll be really hard on the hands, since they're fairly narrow lines. Also, the lines will take more UV damage than one with an outer braid.

zz4gta · #3 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

I'm not worried so much about the comfort factor, but having the line slip through a correctly sized clutch or cleat isn't acceptable. My main reason for wanting to change these is that the spin halyard has to be winched up the last few feet. The old halyards barely fit into the mast, had to be pushed in with a screwdriver. Winching on a spin halyard that hasn't set is not acceptable. Takes way to long, and my crew starts to hate flying it.

I know its tough to say, but would you estimate 3 years of use? or would it be replacing after every year?

sailingdog · #4 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

I'd imagine that NE Ropes Endura 12 or V-12 would last at least three years. You might want to put a polyester outer braid over the bottom portion so that it has a bit better handling characteristics and would work in the clutch better than the thinner line would in general.

J36ZT · #5 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

zz4gta,

You should probably visit New England Ropes and snoop around a bit. Although I've heard of racers stripping the outer cover off of a portion of a halyard, I've never heard of anyone using amsteel for a halyard.

T-900 is what I've used to replace cable/line halyards. V-12 would also be a good choice. In any case, if you've had cable run over a sheeve, you should either replace the sheeve or sand to a polish the surface of the sheeve. Otherwise, you'll wear the covering off of the line (and without a covering, amsteel is likely to part sooner than expected).

However, it's your boat so you can do whatever you like. I've just never heard of anyone using amsteel for a halyard. It doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

Thanks,

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"

GeorgeB · #6 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

You will need to keep the cover on at least over the line you expect to run through a clutch as they have a hard time gripping the uncore’d material. As these types of lines have amazing stretch properties, you can get away with smaller diameter line (cover and all) as long as it isn’t too small for the clutch. I had a cover break on a T900 being used as a main halyard causing the mainsail to drop a few feet because the clutch wouldn’t grip. Halyards, especially spinnakers get a lot of wear over the sheave wheels and the mast exits (where our cover broke) and I’d be inclined to leave the covers on. Have you thought about re-reaving the spin halyard to run outside the mast? We did and it helped tremendously in jumping the halyard. Should have done it years ago.

sailingdog · #7 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

Guys... keep in mind we're talking about a MERIT 25... not a high-tech super racer that is 50' LOA. In terms of strength, 6mm V-12 or Endura 12 would be way overkill for this boat...and can probably take a bit of abuse given the extreme strength ratings of these lines.

I agree that putting a cover braid over the line for the clutches is an excellent idea. I hope you have Lewmar clutches, as they are generally the least abrasive to lines.

heinzir · #8 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008

Check out the APS web site: http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e826.asp

They are extremely knowledgeable about high tech lines. They will strip portions of covered lines for weight savings aloft or add covers to the winched portions of single braids for easier handling. Ask for their catalog, it shows examples of various high tech halyard arrangements and explains their relative merits. It's a good education.

My boat is very low tech; the sail areas are small enough that I don't need no stinkin' winches!

But I scored some 1/4" Vectran-cored Yale Crystaline (http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d279000/e276993.asp) from APS a couple of seasons ago at clearance prices that were even lower than regular NER Sta-set X. Way overkill for a trailer sailer that is never raced but I couldn't pass it up!

chucklesR · #9 (**permalink**) 08-13-2008

My only experience with Dyneema line was on Giulietta this past June. It's very hard to use with hands as you just can't grip it; where normally (based on the amount of force on the line) I could hand pull a jib tighter I had to go with the winch and grind it. Everyone had the same problem and every line on the boat was dyneema.
It was covered, so there might be a difference.

ZZ, for what you are doing, it's just not worth the extra expense and 'unworkability' of hi-tech unless you really want that extra one onehundredth of a knot of speed.

zz4gta · #10 (**permalink**) 08-13-2008

Ok, thanks for all the replies, as stated above, I'm not on a Farr 40 and don't need 1/2 the strength some of those lines can hold, Amsteel looked promising as it was relatively cheap and very strong, able to splice, etc. I picked up a new spin halyard of this stuff in 3/16" along with a bunch of other junk. Let me know what you think.

Ultra-Lite Line

I'm a little concerned about the load this line can handle, 1,200 lbs is way under some of the others I was looking at, but the boat itself weighs less than 3k and the line was cheap, so I think I'll give it a try.