Putting cleats on concrete

[grinfax]

So I had a plan for Fay. I was going to leave my boat at a friends house whose backyard is on a canal. When I got there, there were no cleats on the concrete wall. I tied up to some coconut trees in his yard but that was less than optimal and thank God Fay was a dud.

So to prep for the next hurricane I an going to invest in some cleats. I have a 30' boat. I was thinking about buying 4 of these:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|7504|292249|38357&id=38358

My questions:

1) Are 4 cleats enough?
2) How do I secure the cleats onto the concrete wall?

Thanks,
Kim

[Hartley18]

Kim, it depends what sort of concrete wall you've got to mess with - one would hope it's reinforced - but if it's less than 6" thick, you might be better off with ring-bolts though-bolted into the wall.

Unlike cleats, a rope attached to a ring-bolts can be pulled at any angle and can be as strong as the wall itself if you can drill right through the wall and put a nut and the biggest washer you can get on the other side.

If you can do this, 4 ring bolts, one in each quadrant with the boat in the centre, should hold the boat at least until the wall breaks.

[sailingdog]

I wouldn't use those cleats. Aluminum is a lousy material for cleats IMHO. They are subject to fatigue and fairly vulnerable to corrosion as well.

If the wall is fairly thick, say two-to-three feet, and it were my boat, I would drill fairly large holes and drop in stainless steel or galvanized threaded rod that has the bottom bent into a j-hook, and the top spaced to fit a heavy stainless steel mooring bit like this one:



That would probably be more secure than those small cleats. Make the threaded rods fairly long and the chance that they'll pull out is minimal. BTW, if you're using cleats or mooring bitts, you need to put some sort of rub strake down on the wall to protect the rope from chafing against the concrete.

If the wall is fairly thin, less than a foot thick, I'd agree with Hartley and go with ringbolt or u-bolts with rings attached, that are through bolted using a fairly heavy backing plate.

BTW, it is generally a really stupid idea to tie up to coconut palm trees. Coconut palm trees have very shallow root systems and generally aren't all that sturdy in resisting high lateral loads.

[Hartley18]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

BTW, it is generally a really stupid idea to tie up to coconut palm trees.  Coconut palm trees have very shallow root systems and generally aren't all that sturdy in resisting high lateral loads.

...Not to mention that explaining to your insurer how the deck got damaged by falling coconuts might be more trouble than it's worth!!

BTW, with all due respect for the Dog, mooring bollards are fine... but I'd still think you'd be better off with ring bolts given how often you're likely to be using the berth and what you're wanting it for.

Cameron

[arbarnhart]

If the wall is at or above gunwale height, you might also consider using beach anchors immediately behid the wall. As long as the pull is sideways or down, the geometry/physics are perfect for getting the optimum holding power. If there is any upward pull, then it is a really bad idea. I have seen those used in areas where messing with the seawall itself is forbidden (something you will want to check into with respect to the canal).

[Banshi]

I would use tapcons, a single 1/4" X 1 1/4" screw has 1200 or so pounds of holding strength. They come in both counter sunk and hex head and install quick and easy, drill a small hole screw them down tight and you are done. Your dock/dock cleat will break before they do.

[SteveInMD]

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure TapCons are up the job here. I've seen them pull out with repeated force pulling one way then the other. I would glue in anchors.

Typically this is done by using a hammer drill. You will need a good size drill for this job. With the right drill and a sharp bit the concrete will cut like butter. You then glue a piece of threaded rod (you can use stainless rod of you like) into the hole using an acrylic glue (epoxy was used in the old days, but the acrylic is actually stronger). Put tape on the threads that you will use for nuts to hold the mooring post. If you get glue on the threads it will never come off. If you put an anchor is the wrong place you have to cut it off flush with the concrete as they are not removable, period.

Everything you need to do this job is available at your local home center (maybe not the stainless threaded rod). Look near the joist hangers and and anchors for the acrylic glue. You may be able to rent an SMS type rock hammer from them. Buy yourself a new bit.

[sailingdog]

I wouldn't use beach anchors, since you don't know what the storm will do in terms of surge. Given the size of the storm surge normally associated with a hurricane, even if the boat is even with the land, it might not be during a storm....

Originally Posted by arbarnhart

If the wall is at or above gunwale height, you might also consider using beach anchors immediately behid the wall. As long as the pull is sideways or down, the geometry/physics are perfect for getting the optimum holding power. If there is any upward pull, then it is a really bad idea. I have seen those used in areas where messing with the seawall itself is forbidden (something you will want to check into with respect to the canal).

[Karletto]

i saw maybe 1 peer with cleats in 10 years; in store your can buy special bolts for concrete

[Boasun]

With securing points attached to that sea wall or inboard of the sea wall. You will want to place and anchor or two in the canal to hold your vessel off of that concrete sea-wall. Think of that wall as heavy grit sand paper and you will under stand why. Especially when your fendering system fails.