extending existing BBB anchor chain - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 18 Old 08-28-2008
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Yes, but not in a marine setting. Also, have seen them come very close to failing on a boat...where they were partially opened and on the verge of failing, but had not—probably would have failed if they had been anchored for a few more hours.
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So you have seen some of these links that have failed SD?

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post #12 of 18 Old 08-28-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Galvanised steel.
Connects two chains of same diameter. Use as a temporary chain connection only (SWL* is less than equivalent chain link).
That is enough of a warning for me!
Yep, that's what I was looking for. My Defender catalog says, "Connect 2 lengths of chain. For Temporary or permanent connection." I'll go ahead and pass on the idea of connecting two pieces of BBB. It just isn't worth risking. Although, it does puzzle me that this would be a weak link compared to one of those double ended anchor swivel type devices.

Regarding the anchor selection. I've traded a few emails with the Manson Supreme guys. They said the 45pounder will work, but suggested I go with the 60lbs anchor. That's what I'll do.
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post #13 of 18 Old 08-29-2008
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EDITED BY CAM...PURE COMMERCIAL...you are not permitted to disparage other products OR tout your own except in response to a direct question.

If you're looking at replacing the chain, having decided against a joiner, you definitely want to consider abandoning BBB, go to G40 / hi-test. There is no point in all the extra weight of the BBB required to match the desired strength. Put the extra weight into the anchor. On which, even a 60lb anchor is slightly small. Bigger is better. Our conservative sizings recommend the Rocna 33 for your boat, which is 73lb. DELETED

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Sailnet Disclosure: Craig is the son of the designer of Rocna and has a financial interest in its success.
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post #14 of 18 Old 08-29-2008 Thread Starter
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Craig - I appreciate your passion for the subject. I too am in sales, and our products are also at the high end of the price spectrum. We have all kinds of cheaper competitors that copy what we do, and then position themselves as a "me too." Some customer's make their choice on price alone, and I never agree with them. However, I sell high-end computer systems containing hundreds of features that I use to sell "value;" by which to then influence a customer's decision. The value sell works, and is a must, when you are the higher priced solution. The challenge you have is that us sailors see a huge chunk of metal, not a complex system. We understand tensile strength, or holding power, or reset capability, but there are very few people that can (or would) look at a comparative holding power chart and say, "gee, Manson only has 70lbs vs Rocna's 140" (as it pertains to holding power per relative size). What we do is ask other sailors, read articles, and forum posts, and then come to what we believe is a logical conclusion.

That said, your solution is priced ~43% higher. Us customers scratch our head and ask ourselves, "if I buy this anchor "knock off", am I putting my crew and boat at risk?" "Am I making a ridiculously poor decision?" "Is this Manson better than the old style anchors (Bruce, CQR, etc), which have been holding boats in place for years?" And then, "Do I want to spend $1000 on a Rocna vs $400 for a Bruce or $600 for Manson?" Stop for a second and think to yourself. Is my product delivering 43% more value (60% over a Bruce), and is there empirical data out there (real world) that justifies my pricing premium?

Essentially, all the research I've done, including speaking with at least a dozen experienced cruisers led me to the conclusion that Rocna's are great anchors, but aren't 43% better than others. In fact, I know I would have been perfectly fine with a Bruce, but I opted for the "new age" style anchor (remember, I'm a technology guy.)

Lastly, I'll make you a deal. You loan me a 73lbs Rocna and I'll take it along on the Ha Ha to compare side by side to the Manson. I have a website/blog (Vitesse473.com), which we'll use to catalog our trip (including gear I've purchased, and how it has performed). I am happy to post info on the Rocna's performance, ease of use, photos, etc. If it proves out, I'll gladly give you the $1000.
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post #15 of 18 Old 08-29-2008
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CRAIG - Your most recent post has been deleted and I am posting publicly to acknowledge this deletion.
The RULES here for commercial posters say you cannot promote your own product or slam (and innuendo that another product is an inferior knock off of yours IS disparagement on THIS board if not in the courts)...another's AT ALL unless you are asked a specific question to which you are responding. YOU chose to jump in on a chain thread where no question about your product was asked. That is why you have been edited.
I'm getting tired of your constant self promotion at every opportunity on every anchor related thread. Limit yourself to answering direct questions about your anchors and use factual independent data instead of innuendo if you choose to comment on your competitors in doing so. Or PAY for an AD like other vendors.

No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
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post #16 of 18 Old 08-30-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
CRAIG - Your most recent post has been deleted and I am posting publicly to acknowledge this deletion.
The RULES here for commercial posters say you cannot promote your own product or slam (and innuendo that another product is an inferior knock off of yours IS disparagement on THIS board if not in the courts)...another's AT ALL unless you are asked a specific question to which you are responding. YOU chose to jump in on a chain thread where no question about your product was asked. That is why you have been edited.
I'm getting tired of your constant self promotion at every opportunity on every anchor related thread. Limit yourself to answering direct questions about your anchors and use factual independent data instead of innuendo if you choose to comment on your competitors in doing so. Or PAY for an AD like other vendors.

Thanks Cam for the edit. Craig (and the good moderation of sailnet) is the sole reason I don't bother posting to SSCA and instead enjoy posting here. Craig's posts are also the reason that no matter how good a Rocna is (and I'm not convinced it is) I will NEVER buy one. It'll be a Bruce or Spade for me because of his bad salesmanship and overly aggressive mis-leading posts.
/hijack

Back to the original question:


I am personally a fan of non-standard solutions and rarely do thing's the "right" way just because I'm told to, so now that you know that is my slant let me ask you a couple questions:

The chain link you describe is not designed as a permanent solution and is not the "right" way to ensure that everything with your ground tackle is bombproof. Will it work? Yeah, probably it'll work just fine but it depends on what keeps you up at night and what you're willing to spend. If you were stuck on the idea I'd just make sure to inspect it occasionally and if it doesn't keep you up at night, great. I personally wouldn't do it because I like my ground tackle to be strong, well designed and oversized. When that one big blow opened up I would be imagining (while trying to sleep) it getting cross loaded over a rock and popping open or something like that.

I also WOULD expect it to jam in your windlass. I added zip tied to my chain before my last trip and the added width of a zip tie on 3/8 chain caused the windlass to not let go of the chain and jam in the windlass 40-50% of the time. PITA. I find gypsies are REALLY picky about chain size, uniformity, etc etc. Is the connector EXACTLY the same size? Will it sit at exactly the same orientation? I expect it will jam. An annoyance more than anything but an annoyance all the same.

Why are you upgrading your anchor setup? Is what you have keeping you up at night? Is your goal to have more holding power and a stronger safer anchor setup? If so I think you could re-approprate the same amount of money and avoid the chain. Buy a used delta for example, or get chain from an industrial supplier. Used chain perhaps.

Why more chain? Chain, in and of itself, does not mean more holding power. Chain allows you to have the same holding power with less scope payed out and gives more chafe resistance. ie chain does not make your anchor hold stronger but rather allows you to anchor in deeper and more crowded harbors with the same holding power.

Finally, what are the limitations of your proposed upgrade? Is it cost? Weight? Storage space? Anchor roller configuration? Take a look at what you're after and what your limitations are. You currently have plenty of chain for chafe resistance and to assist in setting. If all you're after is a stronger setup with more holding power put all your budget into a HUGE anchor. I'll stay out of the debate as to which one but will offer to go with the tried and tested ones not knockoffs. Bruce, Spade, Delta whatever. You might get much better results with your current rode and n 88lb delta for example. Too big? No such thing. It weighs less than a 44lb plus your new chain and costs less too and will have a higher holding power.

If it's reduced swinging in a crowded anchorage you're after than chain (weight in your rode) is what you want. In this case perhaps you could buy a new length of chain and saving money else ware as previously suggested. What about sticking with your current anchor for now and just buying the extra chain?

Just some thoughts to help confuse you further. I doubt you'll be risking anyone's life by using the temporary link but I bet you can achieve your upgrading goals without taking a chance on it.

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Last edited by MedSailor; 08-30-2008 at 10:06 PM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 11-14-2013
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Re: extending existing BBB anchor chain

Note recent tests by Cox Engineering. Drop forged heated links such as Peerless/acco [sold as Seafit by west marine] are as strong as the links of chain they splice. This does not address issues of rust, and gypsy jumping however.
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post #18 of 18 Old 11-14-2013
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Re: extending existing BBB anchor chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbaron View Post
Note recent tests by Cox Engineering. Drop forged heated links such as Peerless/acco [sold as Seafit by west marine] are as strong as the links of chain they splice. This does not address issues of rust, and gypsy jumping however.
The problem with these tests is they test new chain with new linkages. Because of the extra surface area, cracks, no visible areas, they just are not as secure long term. The same test a year later it is likely the same, but three years down the road who knows.

Greg Rubin
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