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  #21  
Old 09-08-2008
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Actually, it depends on the which ACR relay you've got. The one pictured above will charge BOTH banks provided either side has a charging level voltage present. The older one would only combine and charge both banks if the primary bank was being charged, but wouldn't do the same if the secondary bank had a charging voltage unless a sense wire was connected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
Didn't the OP say he had the Blue sea automatic charging relay system. I think the relay will charge either bank automatically regardless of where the switch is set. Thats the whole idea of the system isn't it? I also understand that you have to be carefull when using multi stage chargers because of sensing issues when in float stage (charging voltage 2 low for proper operation).
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
Didn't the OP say he had the Blue sea automatic charging relay system. I think the relay will charge either bank automatically regardless of where the switch is set. Thats the whole idea of the system isn't it?
Drug rep, (taking a wild guess on RXBOT)

Yes, that is how they work. Essentially it is nothing more than a high current relay (switch) that when it senses around 13+/- volts closes and connects the start bank to the house bank. If one bank is very low the higher charged battery will bleed off it's charge to the lower bank until they equalize (this still occurs regardless of the alternator output). If you run the engine long enough both banks will fully recharge. If you stop short the start batt will be at an over all lower level of charge and the house bank slightly higher. Once you stop the charging, shut off the engine, or disconnect from shore power, and the voltage drops bellow 13 the relay disconnects the banks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
I also understand that you have to be careful when using multi stage chargers because of sensing issues when in float stage (charging voltage 2 low for proper operation).
I don't really know what you mean by this. Most of these relays will kick in and out/in at about 13 volts My Yandina is between 12.8 & 13 volts. The lowest float stage voltage I've seen on my three Balmar regulators I've owned is 13.2 for wet cell which should be and is sufficient to keep the relay closed.. If the float was to low for a particular brand of combining relay you could get relay chatter which is not good..

I hope I was understanding you..
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-08-2008 at 06:29 PM.
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  #23  
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Float voltage

Halekai or is it Acoustic, don't some multistage chargers do the float stage at low 12 volt levels. While were on subject don't different types of battery have different limits to what is healthy for them? That may be more concerned with amps though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
Halekai or is it Acoustic, don't some multistage chargers do the float stage at low 12 volt levels. While were on subject don't different types of battery have different limits to what is healthy for them? That may be more concerned with amps though.

Halekai, Acoustic or Maine Sail depending on the forum, when I registered, or what boat I owned at the time.. I know confusing..! I've tried to change over to Maine Sail but the admins here won't do that for me..?


Most that I've seen are low 13's for float. Gels are can be a little lower 12.9 - 13.1 and wets in the 13.2-13.4 range. If you mix say a gel or AGM start bank with a wet-cell house then you'd want two different charge rates but it's more on the bulk phase where the concern is than float.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-08-2008 at 06:31 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2008
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Halekai-
" This is because your group 24 battery with roughly 70 amp hours just tried to charge a 450 amp hour bank of dead batteries "
If the Blue Sea ACR gizmo is as smart as the Yandina/West combiner is, that scenario could not happen!
Check the manual. If the house bank is so far depleted that it could suck the alternator and battery voltage below 13.6(?) volts--the combiner will open up and isolate the starting battery from the house bank again. IIRC there's about a 90-second delay in the system so it doesn't chatter, but when the system voltage drops, for any reason, the Yandina combiner cuts out the second battery until the primary one has been brought back up to nominal voltage again.

The only real fault I've heard is that, after all, a relay can fail. And I agree, they can fail, but they're pretty damn reliable when they are sourced from prime sources to begin with. (As both the Yandina and BS probably are.)

Jim-
In terms of capacity and updates later, as long as the maximum amperage ratings are less than what you are planning to upgrade to, you'll be fine. The Yandina/West version comes in 75A and 150A ratings, as I recall, and as long as your alternator output is LESS than the device rating, you're OK.
You really have a 35A alternator?? Not 55A?
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  #26  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Halekai-

If the Blue Sea ACR gizmo is as smart as the Yandina/West combiner is, that scenario could not happen!
With a big enough alternator, say a Balmar 100 and a multi-stage regulator, you'd be hard pressed to see it ever drop bellow the 13.3 volts it takes to initiate the relay closing in the bulk phase.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Check the manual. If the house bank is so far depleted that it could suck the alternator and battery voltage below 13.6(?) volts--the combiner will open up and isolate the starting battery from the house bank again.
Yes the Yandina 50 & 150 do that but it begins the disconnect at 13.3 volts as opposed to 13.6 and then has a 30 second delay which I forgot about. My bad on the delay!


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
IIRC there's about a 90-second delay in the system so it doesn't chatter, but when the system voltage drops, for any reason, the Yandina combiner cuts out the second battery until the primary one has been brought back up to nominal voltage again.
Actually 30 seconds and yes I forgot about that, that's why I see my combiner cut out at 13 volts not 13.3..

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
The only real fault I've heard is that, after all, a relay can fail. And I agree, they can fail, but they're pretty damn reliable when they are sourced from prime sources to begin with. (As both the Yandina and BS probably are.)
Never had one fail!



P.S. RXBOT is right about the cut out voltage being too low for some float stages! I see my combiner cut out at 13 volts but that is after a 30 second delay from the 13.3 cut off hence my thinking it was 13 volts.

Sorry for my bad info on this! If you have an adjustable float voltage Yandina recommends upping it to 13.4-13.6 instead of the usual 13.2-13.4 for wet cells. My float drops to 13.2 so I'm most likely not float charging my start battery, will need to check it.

Darn 30 second delay screwed me all up...!
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  #27  
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Ok, everybody, thanks for your comments. Very much appreciated.

It looks like The Way To Go (for us, anyway) would be the Blue Sea Systems e-Series Battery Switch Dual Circuit Plus [tm]



coupled with the Xantrex Echo-Charge



I wonder what kind of interaction there would possibly be between the Xantrex Echo-Charge and the Xantrex TrueCharge 10TB charger? The Echo-Charge detects charging on the house bank and diverts up to 15A to the start battery. The 10TB is a dual-channel smart charger, that's going to want to handle each battery/bank independently. Guess I'll have to call/write Xantrex to ask them about that.

Thanks again, everybody. (Now I just have to convince The Admiral and Family CFO to let me spend Yet A Few More Bucks on this solution. Wish me luck!)

Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
You really have a 35A alternator?? Not 55A?
Yes, I really do have a 35A alternator, assuming it's the original/stock Motorola alternator with which Atomic-4s were fitted. I have no reason to believe otherwise, and it looks like the original I've seen in pictures.

Jim
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Jim,

The TrueCharge 10TB charger can handle one battery bank just fine. Connect one red wire and one black wire to the desired battery bank (e.g., to the house bank).

The EchoCharge will work independently of the TrueCharge 10TB charger. Connect it to the start battery and the house battery bank per instructions which accompany the device.

Bill
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Old 09-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors
The TrueCharge 10TB charger can handle one battery bank just fine.
Just so that I'm completely clear, when you use an EchoCharge type device you have no need, nor use, for a charger that can charge two banks independently. You only want to charge one bank anyway, and let the EchoCharge handle the other one.

One thing that is obvious from all of these "how do I charge my batteries" threads is that there is a LOT of confusion out there! Is there a book that explains it all in a clear and concise manner for the layman? Perhaps Nigel Calder's book? (Which, I confess, is on my list but I haven't gotten around to reading yet.)
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