Still- great minds think alike, or maybe it's just the cold weather on my part...whatever. I'm starting to install a Wallas 40D forced air system tomorrow. I would love to have a woodstove or a bulkhead mount diesel or propane heater but no available wall space so I'm diving into the engine compartment to mount the Wallas. Nothing like a little crummy weather near the end of Sept. to make you start thinking about heat on the boat.

John

 

I am using an outfitters woodstove. The type made for horse packin' , with wall tents. It is about the size of a 5 ga. bucket on its side with 10 inch legs. Many models out there, Cabelas is a good place to start. Chimney goes through the deck but when not in use or under sail the top 2 ft. of stove pipe comes out, and a circular hatch or cover swings over the hole and a wing nutted bolt secures. 2 1/2 inch stove pipe with a double wall roof jack means about a 5 in. hole. I am surrounded by firewood. If I had to buy firewood, I would seriously consider a pellet stove.

 

Cool John...

Eagle knight is equipped with Forced air heat as well but I was wanting something not requiring engine or gen-set noise in a quit anchorage some where.

I really dont have readily available bulk head space either so was hoping some creative souls out there had some clever ideas on the problum.

That 57' mast of mine would sure make one fine chimminy....

 

You can get self contained diesel forced air heat with out running engine or genset.

 

RainDrop,
Given that this is not just your boat we are talking about I think I should have some input.

Personally I'd go for one of those Dickinson things, smoke stack or no smoke stack. Diesel or Kerosene, even LPG is an option. Newport is the model we would instal but maybe for PNW you might need something a bit beefier.

They do still make a solid fuel heater but the problem with that has to be fuel stowage and don't try and tell me that a solid fuel heater is not going to be messy.

Thing I like about the Dickinsons is that you do see a flickering flame. That has to be nice.

 

Here''s the propane version of the Dickinson Newport TDW refers to.. relatively compact on the bulkhead, visible flame, TC protected and fully vented incl outside combustion air.

Here's another install on the larger version in our previous boat, which didn't have free bulkead space, so we build an alcove and sacrificed a small portion of a settee:

As a bit of a bonus we gained the little storage cubby behind the heater!

 

Here''s the propane version of the Dickinson Newport TDW refers to.. relatively compact on the bulkhead, visible flame, TC protected and fully vented incl outside combustion air.

Ron, just curious: Exactly how much heat do you get out the front of these things? Is there a limit to how close you can install combustibles (like the table) to the front of it??

(The only reason I ask is that you have an electric fan heater on the floor.. )

Cameron

 

And good input it is..

I am warming up to the possible inevitability of a flue penetration through the deck but it will take some more wrestling in my mind though..Im not usually one to put ascetics above functionality but sill she has such a nice looking deck ...Alas if we must we must..I would really want to steer clear of anything but a straight vertical run if at all possible in the cabin though..just for ascetic's...ok I lied a little..

I like this set up as its tucked away from inadvertent stumbling into hot iron and it actually has potential in Eagle Knights existing layout with some cabinetry modifications.

All this more then likely depends on appropriate locations for a penetration in the deck that would not interfere with sail or line movement above deck or present a constant tripping hazard in a high traffic lane..Most likely I will have to sail her a while to figure thoes out.

These units seem to have the ability to heat your hot water tank as well which would be a plus.

Which would be better the Diesel or Propane?

Still...the smell of a little wood smoke wafting thru the cabin congers up the romantic in me so keep the ideas comming..

 

Over there in the corner of the saloon is where I was thinking for that possible installation..We would not have to lose any of the settee either which is our only semblance to making any sort of sea birth underway.

One of the A/C and forced air heat units resides there but dosent take up that much of it.

 

I guess I could as well do a bulkhead mount as you did Faster but was thinking of trying to keep the heat as low in the boat as possible more then anything. And worried about people hitting their head constantly while seated at the table.

 

Mounting the heater as high as that on the bulkhead does look a bit awkward, and would be problematic in other ways as you suggest.

Hard to tell from the pic, but is there space enough on the side of your settee in front of the mast (down low?)

.. another alternative I've seen is mounting the heater on the mast itself - any height you want and obviously central to the cabin space. It would require some thought as to the bracket and mounting, but it could be done.

 

Requires no bulkhead

Someone was going to suggest it . . . .

 

But very high maintenance... especially the particular model in your photo.

Someone was going to suggest it . . . .

 

Here's a picture of the Dickensen propane chimney exit on my last boat. I used 3 overlapping Boom Bails to keep the lines from snagging and in the 4 years after installation I never had a line snag.

 

That's clever. I like it.

 

Scott, on a previous 25 footer that we had, I built a little wood stove and installed in on its own companion way hatch board with the pipe exiting out the backside and then up. We burned presto log rounds in it. It barely took the chill off that little boat and it wouldn't burn but an hour at a time, but it's what we could do with the resources we had (in other words too po' to buy a real stove) It definitely looked like something like Jethro would throw together but I'm not the kind of fellow who worries too much about what other people think. Anyway, I totally get the idea of not wanting to cut a hole through the cabin top so that's the alternative that we came up with.

Omatako's solution looks good too, but I'm not sure where you would store that when not in use and I'm not sure whether it's vented to the outside or not, because air circulation is critical.

 

I agree, our propane Dickinson keeps the main saloon nice a toasty, but the heat does not reach the aft berth. We too close the doors to the V-berth and the head to help contain the heat. I find that we use it more in the early spring season than we do in the fall.

If you want to heat the entire boat, depending on boat size, a forced air type installation might be the way to go, but I think that would be more money and a harder install up front.

As has been pointed out, the bulkhead mounted Dickinson has a two piece chimney. The oxygen that is burned is brought in from the outside so oxygen depletion is not a problem. We love ours as well.

Also, they sell a guard for the chimney vent. Christy made his own, but you can purchase one with the heater.

(Our boat is trashed in this picture, teenagers. Its about the only pic I have of our heater)

 

Whine, whine, whine... if you think that is bad, wait until she wants to get married... Ask TB about wedding bills.

...

(Our boat is trashed in this picture, teenagers. Its about the only pic I have of our heater)

 

Still- the forced air heaters like the Wallas, Espar and Webasto don't require the engine to be running. They are small diesel fired furnaces that only require a small amount of power to run the fan and ignition. Installation can be a big job though because of the need to run several 3" flexible duct hoses to the outlets. The Wallas I am installing puts out about the equivalent of 4000 watts, so hopefully it will keep us warm on all but the coldest of days. I sure like the looks of the bulkhead heaters though, and seeing the flames. Maybe we can just find a fireplace program for the laptop and snuggle up close to it and burn some woodchips on the stove for atmosphere .

John

 

Still,

We discussed heaters generically in a couple of threads last year. Search "cabin heaters" and you should find a couple threads that cover the pros and cons of the various types. Good info there.

Faster and TJK pretty well covered the Dickinson Newports. I like their propane systems for the clean burn. Diesel would be okay I guess. The guys at Dickinson told me that the solid fuel version is primarily for decorative/ambiance purpose and they did not recommend it for serious heating requirements. We got our P9000 from an outfit out your way called Go-2-Marine. They were the cheapest by far.

From your photos, you look to have it easy, installation-wise. Since we have an "open" interior with no bulkheads to speak of, I had to build out a surface on which to mount the heater. We ordered the optional interior chimney guard, as well as the optional exterior stack protector (which you can sort-of see in the second photo, on the starboard coachroof just aft the forward hatch). Sorry, these are not the best photos but they're all I've got.

 

Since we have an "open" interior with no bulkheads to speak of, I had to build out a surface on which to mount the heater. We ordered the optional interior chimney guard, as well as the optional exterior stack protector (which you can sort-of see in the second photo, on the starboard coachroof just aft the forward hatch). Sorry, these are not the best photos but they're all I've got.

If the stack gets very hot, what does it come into contact with as it passes thru the deck?

In a squall or a roll does that cover make for a watertight seal?

I was on a boat that used a small, gravity-fed diesel tank mounted behind the stove. It was a neat set-up.

 

Omatako's solution looks good too, but I'm not sure where you would store that when not in use and I'm not sure whether it's vented to the outside or not, because air circulation is critical.
__________________
Ray

Too Funny...

Still,

We discussed heaters generically in a couple of threads last year. Search "cabin heaters" and you should find a couple threads that cover the pros and cons of the various types. Good info there.

I should have did that John...sorry..

I actually found one Sailnet thread after the fact while doing a google search late last night...but as long as were into it now lets keep going..if its OK with everyone.?

So it seems so far that everyone with a Dickerson has gone propane ...I was actually leaning to the diesel for two reasons... 1st) larger BTU output and... 2nd) the gas issue ( lets not go there..as Im ok with it it already in the boat anyway )

Iv thought about Johns forced air hes installing running on diesel thats another option to check out Im pretty sure im going to need 15000 BTUs to really make a dent though.

I still cant quite give up on wood though..We heat our home almost entirely by wood and yes its a little messy in two ways fly ash when say opining the door or cleaning out the firebox and just from the handeling and storing of the wood...Seems like the consensus is its more visual then practical heat out put wise but I was considering maybe something larger then suggested..something like this..

 

Still, no worries on the old threads. I wasn't criticizing, just trying to be helpful in making you aware that there's a lot of good info on the topic here at SailNet.

I like those mini-woodstoves like the Halibut, Sardine, etc form Navigator ( Traditional Cast Iron Marine Stoves by Navigator Stove Works,Inc. ). My wife wants me to install one in our kitchen!

Here's the thing: I know several people with solid fuel and diesel heaters. They all complain about the residue left on deck. You can reduce it by getting a flue extension, but those can't usually be used underway. Also, I think it would be pretty messy to haul and store wood on the boat. Cleaner pellets can be used, but again, it's yet one more fuel to load aboard.

The propane is clean and easy, if that's what you've got for your galley already. The visible flame is REALLY nice too. Just my opinion, others may vary.

 

Thanks John...You bring up a good point about deck mess and the benefits of clean burning propane..I only have propane locker storage for 2 of the small what are they 8 may be 10 lb bottles..heck maybe there 12 or so I really dont know the size..1/2 the size of a standard 20 lb anyway..So how long a burn time do you guys get?

Got to go to work check in later..Thanks every one.

Oh ...Faster ..Good Eye on spying that space in front of the mast..if it was about 6" deeper It would be a no-brainer to put it there but Im afraid of burns and or skinned knees negotiating around the table even when not in use. And/or someone using the chimney for a handhold while underway.

 

OR this...............

 

Diesel Antartic stove. Burns up to 1 gallon of diesel/24 hrs. plumbed in to our main tanks. Minimal stuff to go wrong but needs to be mounted with heeling in mind if used underway. Every once in a while, we get some soot on the deck like JohnRPollard mentioned. Nice ambience with the visible flame. An alternate cooking source. Plumbs in to our hot water tank, so we have hot water in the morning. Plenty of BTU's, although it takes a little while to heat up the boat (unlike one of those forced air diesel stove). Quiet.

 

Still:

Not to be a killjoy, but I think you maybe ought to think about whether you even want a heater.

I have a bulkhead mounted diesel heater on my C30, and I've used it exactly twice in the past 3 winters.

Our kids are about the same age, and I don't know about your family's attitudes, but in general, if it's cold enough to require a heater, it's too cold for sailing.

When we cruise in the winter, it's generally weekenders to "civilization" at a marina with shore power. We just use an electric space heater then.


So, I wonder what use you will really get out of it...

I'm glad I have heat on my boat, but am not so sure that I would pay to add it.

Of course, you ARE farther north than Edmonds....

David

 

Im back...To nasty out to entice me to go play in the dirt today ...Man Im addicted to this place ( it didnt take much )...The only thing more fun then messing about on boats is talking about them.

Thats a fair question Dave and I'll try to answer that.

I know my Girls... if I can keep them warm their up for about anything..And even though they like dock amenities and exploring water front hamlets we all really like the solitude that only comes from anchoring out... Also my line of work gives me way more time off ( without pay ) in the winter..so funds for marina stays are less available but time for boating in general is greater.

Its a bummer but thats what it is..One of the many reasons I fall into the condo on the water type boat owner verses a more sporty pointing boat...Give em lots of room and open space, all the amenities of home and they will want to be out there with me...And I love my women with me if they arnt around and enjoying partaking in my life I dont enjoy doing it either. ..so heat it is. ...My old bones won't complain as much either.

 

Im back...To nasty out to entice me to go play in the dirt today ...Man Im addicted to this place ( it didnt take much )...The only thing more fun then messing about on boats is talking about them.

Thats a fair question Dave and I'll try to answer that.

I know my Girls... if I can keep them warm their up for about anything..And even though they like dock amenities and exploring water front hamlets we all really like the solitude that only comes from anchoring out... Also my line of work gives me way more time off ( without pay ) in the winter..so funds for marina stays are less available but time for boating in general is greater.

Its a bummer but thats what it is..One of the many reasons I fall into the condo on the water type boat owner verses a more sporty pointing boat...Give em lots of room and open space, all the amenities of home and they will want to be out there with me...And I love my women with me if they arnt around and enjoying partaking in my life I dont enjoy doing it either. ..so heat it is. ...My old bones won't complain as much either.

All good answers and reasons, Still. Get the heater.

David

 

I will go diesel heat (I carry 140 gallons, after all) probably with Espar or Wallas buried in a locker. As I already have AC, I can use the existing vents paired with the A/C, as long as I can shut away the heat from the A/C venting and unit (because it might melt).

Propane for heating is convenient on coasts, but not offshore, and as a fuel, it is "wetter", leading to potential issues with condensation.

I recommend, as I have other times the topic has arisen, this book:

The Warm Dry Boat by Roger McAfee

which, as it was written in the PNW, should apply. The critical bit is not heating the air, but venting the boat so that damp cold air is heated and sent up the flue. Get the damp out, and the boat feels better.

 

Propane for heating is convenient on coasts, but not offshore, and as a fuel, it is "wetter", leading to potential issues with condensation.

Val,

I'll agree with you about propane for long distance/offshore or real cold climate heating. Diesel would be better for that.

But as for the moisture issue with propane, the reason I and several others speak so highly of these Dickinson units is that they have a sealed combustion chamber fed by a double-walled chimney. All the air for combustion is drawn from abovedecks and all the exhaust from combustion is simillarly vented to the exterior. No moisture issues at all. Very dry heat. Self cooling (or, heat-limiting) chimney. Pretty slick.

 

Thanks Val..I just did a search of my public library ..they dont have it so I just ordered it.

Im leaning toward diesel ( or wood ) my self at this early stage not ruling out Propane yet or diesel fired forced air as I to have plenty of fuel @ 120 gal and a/c ducting but its in two different zones so would need two units to utilize it all. ( but fuel aint cheap and Dickenson says there largest model burns almost 4 gal per 24/day on high. )
But what Im really after is self sufficient heat ..ie no power consumption required... or very very little anyway..and of course the cheapest BTU for the buck that makes the most sense in terms of weighing out all the pros and cons.

I know I can run my motorhome propane forced air furnace for about 3 days and interior lights conservatively on 350 ah ( yes I now realize I've been abusing my batteries thanks to my sailing education.. ) but I think a boat is going to use more total ah per day, just a gut feeling i have could be wrong.. I realize I have a gen-set and all that gadgetry which is nice and reassuring but there's nothing like quit heat from a good dependable stove..

 

But what Im really after is self sufficient heat ..ie no power consumption required... or very very little anyway..and of course the cheapest BTU for the buck that makes the most sense in terms of weighing out all the pros and cons.

I hear that. I already have forced air heating via my Mermaid Marine Air heat pump...but it eats 17 amps at start-up and the March pump is 115 AC...a super pump, but offshore A/C and heat from electrical sources are very expensive in electrons. If I'm on shore power, I don't think twice...the water can be 40F/5C and I can get heat from it.

I need either a "whole boat solution" running on diesel, or a "zone" solution (also diesel) in the form of a saloon bulkhead heater. I am leaning toward a whole boat solution not just because we'll be liveaboards, but because keeping the boat warm and dry is part of keeping it uncorroded, as condensation on a metal boat is a bigger problem than on a F/G.

I've even considered capturing waste heat from the engine and using little block heaters and fans, but this set-up is likely too fragile for the kind of sailing we'll do.

The strange thing is that the pilothouse gets quite warm in the daytime from the sun and the engine heat (when running), but the aft cabin and the saloon (both down three steps) remain cool, unless the stove is running. So maybe I need a ceiling fan in reverse?

The layout of the boat is

 

I've been eyeballing the Dickinson Propane units for Oh Joy as well. I sail regardless of the weather and it'd be nice to have some heat besides the propane oven on occasion. Seeing as my fuel tank is only 25 gallons, propane's good for me.

 

Charlie, I think you'd like it. We used to do as you do and take the chill off with the oven, but that is where the problem Val mentioned comes in: moisture. When we'd do a lot of pre-heating and baking (all to warm up the boat) our cabin would turn into a rain forest from the moisture that is a by-product of propane combustion. It all gets dumped into the cabin because the stove/oven is not vented outdoors.

Check the price at Go-2-Marine. Two years ago I got the entire package (with chimney guard and flue guard) for about U.S. $600.

 

Yep, the last time I checked it was just over $700 or so. I know what ya mean about condensation from the oven. I've just gotta find a place to mount it.