electronics question

diverdad69 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008

Im going to be fitting my boat for gps and depth sounder, radio etc, possible auto tiller, with out breaking the bank what do you suggest?

as far as the radio goes I want it to be able to link with the gps and give coords if something is wrong...

also how far does a typical mounted VHF radio signal travel compared to a hand held.

Im looking at the ICOM 422 or 604 in radios but open to ideas

sander06 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

The radio I went with is a Standard Horizon Quest-X GX1500S VHF Radio with the optional remote microphone. It also has the GPS hookup for indicating position when using the emergency beacon feature. Looks to be quite a bit cheaper than Icom. The distance of travel for the radio signal is antenna height related since VHF is all line of sight transmissions. The main radio antenna is usually mounted on a mast and therefore goes out quite a ways, 12 miles maybe. There's a formula for that but I'm too lazy to dig it out. A hand held radio at deck level goes out maybe three miles. I don't know, but I assume hand held radios are putting out lower power compared to a regular radio since the antenna is right by your head when in use. I only use the hand held when messing with bridges or in the dinghy.

These radios all do about the same thing as far as I can tell, the only difference being the bells and whistles. I go by price and name brand. All of my radios are Standard Horizon.

sailingdog · #3 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by diverdad69

Im going to be fitting my boat for gps and depth sounder, radio etc, possible auto tiller, with out breaking the bank what do you suggest?

Are you doing the work yourself? If so, here's what I'd recommend:

Instruments: TackTick 104 setup. The displays and the wind transducer are wireless, making the entire installation much simpler than any of the wired ones as you don't have to run wiring up the mast for the wind instruments or inside the boat for the displays. The speed/depth transducers are still wired, as are the hull transmitter and NMEA interface, but it is a much simpler installation than the others out there.

Radio: Icom makes a good unit and either of the ones you've pointed out would work. Check to see if the radio has both NMEA in and out. If it only has NMEA in, it won't plot the DSC distress calls you receive on your chartplotter. I have the Icom M504, and it has both NMEA in and out. A handheld has a working range of about 3-4 miles, and is generally limited to a max of 5-6 Watts. A masthead VHF antenna with a full-power unit is broadcasting with 25 Watts of power and has a range of 20-30 miles most of the time. VHF is usually line-of-sight limited, and the fact that a handheld is used at deck height means it has far less range than a mast-head mounted VHF antenna, which is 30'+ above deck level.

As for the Tiller Pilot, it depends on what boat you have and I don't believe you've said.

SEMIJim · #4 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Are you doing the work yourself? If so, here's what I'd recommend:

Instruments: TackTick 104 setup.

SD, he wrote "with out breaking the bank." To me, $2500 (MAP) is a lot of money.

diverdad69,

I looked at radios earlier in the season. I wanted DSC (current radio does not have) and remote access microphone (RAM). (The latter so we could better-hear/-use the radio from the cockpit.) It looked to me like the best bang-for-the-buck that would give me those was either the Icom 402 or Standard Horizon Quest-X GX1500S. (The new radio hasn't happened yet for financial reasons.)

As for a GPS: If you can still find a Garmin 498C, that is one nice little GPS that, with optional sonar transducer, will give you your depth, as well. (I have that, but still prefer the Raymarine ST60 depth sounder that came with the boat.) If you can't find the 498C anywhere, perhaps its successor would be the way to go.

A fixed radio will usually have greater range, but that's primarily due to it being hooked-up to a higher-gain antenna that's at greater height, so your question is difficult to answer. If you're going to have it hooked up to your GPS for DSC, I would think you'd want a fixed radio, anyway.

Jim

camaraderie · #5 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

A fixed radio is the ONLY safe choice. 25 watts vs. 5 watts makes about a 5x difference in range when coupled to a higher mounted antenna as well. Portables are for convenience and dinghies!
Sailnet has a specail on the Uniden solara w/ DSC for $93 bucks which is an excellent deal I think. UNIDEN SOLARA DSC BLACK Shop.Sailnet.com - sailing resources, shopping, sail, blogs

The Icom422 is $195 here but is all you want is a good radio and DSC...why pay double the price unless some of the other features are important to you.

On the GPS front...I'd definitely stay with Garmin these days for either a basic or chartplotting model. If you plan to add radar later...be sure to get a chartplotter that is compatible.

As to tiller pilots...I'd suggest the Simrad lineup in whatever model is appropriate for your displacement.
Tillerpilots | Simrad Yachting
The TP22 sells here for $474 by way of a price range.

SEMIJim · #6 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaraderie

The Icom422 is $195 here but is all you want is a good radio and DSC...why pay double the price unless some of the other features are important to you.

Indeed. That's why I mentioned our criteria included RAM capability, which adds some cost.

The RAM, to me, should be handy. Allows one to mount the radio down below and also have full control over it up in the cockpit.

Jim

sailingdog · #7 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

I'd agree on the GPS units, but the 498C was discontinued a while back and is really tough to find now. As for the instruments... if you're doing the install yourself, yes, it is a bit pricey, but if you need to pay someone to install the other instruments, it can often be less expensive to install the TackTick gear yourself...which is very, very simple to do...and it turns out to be less expensive overall—since you're not paying for the installation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEMIJim

SD, he wrote "with out breaking the bank." To me, $2500 (MAP) is a lot of money.

diverdad69,

I looked at radios earlier in the season. I wanted DSC (current radio does not have) and remote access microphone (RAM). (The latter so we could better-hear/-use the radio from the cockpit.) It looked to me like the best bang-for-the-buck that would give me those was either the Icom 402 or Standard Horizon Quest-X GX1500S. (The new radio hasn't happened yet for financial reasons.)

As for a GPS: If you can still find a Garmin 498C, that is one nice little GPS that, with optional sonar transducer, will give you your depth, as well. (I have that, but still prefer the Raymarine ST60 depth sounder that came with the boat.) If you can't find the 498C anywhere, perhaps its successor would be the way to go.

A fixed radio will usually have greater range, but that's primarily due to it being hooked-up to a higher-gain antenna that's at greater height, so your question is difficult to answer. If you're going to have it hooked up to your GPS for DSC, I would think you'd want a fixed radio, anyway.

Jim

btrayfors · #8 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

Rather than bother with a RAM microphone, one option for some folks might be to install a 2nd, completely independent and redundant VHF. You can actually buy a full VHF these days for less than the price of many RAM mics.

Install the 2nd VHF somewhere in the cockpit, attached to a VHF antenna mounted on the pushpit. This gives you full redundancy in the event of a failure of the main rig, dismasting, etc. It also gives you up to 25W transmit power which will extend the range a bit, certainly more than a handheld. And, you can leave it on all the time without worrying about charging or changing batteries.

Bill

baboon · #9 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

I also am looking for GPS and instrument info. I have read lots of spotty reviews for tacktic. The ease of instal factor is great. Some have pointed out the battery will give out overnight, others are frustrated that the batteries are not user replacable. Their customer service seems iffy at times. Any real world experience out there?

jarcher · #10 (**permalink**) 10-14-2008

ICOM makes great radios and I had several ham rigs from them, but if you're looking to save a few bucks get a Unidin VHF. I paid $140 for a higher end one that has NEMA in and out, weather alert, all the bells and whistles.

If you are concerned about range, put the extra money into the antenna. also, do not buy cheap feedline. A good antenna and feedline is a better place to put the money then on a remote mic, IMO. On my 30 foot Scampi the VHF radio can be heard everywhere. Its plenty loud and annoying