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Solid Forestay

6K views 43 replies 15 participants last post by  Faster 
#1 ·
I'm looking for a supplier of solid forestays. Please let me know of anyone that is a North American supplier of them. TIA
 
#4 ·
Whichever it is you're after, a local rigger can help you out.
 
#8 ·
The problem with rod rigging on a cruising boat is that it is harder to jury-rig replacements when cruising in more remote regions...

Also, it would help if you said what region of the country you're in. Shipping rod rigging is rather expensive, and getting someone that is relatively local is probably a good idea.
 
#14 ·
From what it was explained to me, as I was going to go with some kind of synthetic on the replacement of the rod rigging. I opted to replace mine:

1. even though there is nothing visibily wrong with the previous rod rigging (original to the boat), the drawback is that especially with a furler installed - there really is no way to check for fatigue of the rod.

2. Needed smaller turnbuckles - and as SD pointed out, near impossible to swage on a new fitting without damaging the point of attachment at the rod.

Synthetic is prone to lots more chafe, even though it can be subjected to more load. Wire I am replacing because I have already had instances of it failing at undesirable time.

Rod is bit stronger and offers greater chafe protection overall.

That is how I understand at least...and why I replaced my rod with well rod...
 
#15 ·
Thanks Jody...but my question was really to ask about rod vs. wire rigging.
I would never get rod if I were cruising outside of the country...just wondering if there are advantages to it vs. wire for anyone doing USA coastal cruising and not racing.
I had mine all replaced with new wire and stayloc type fittings for ease of repair/fabrication abroad...but the discussion of rod for anything other than racing is new to me. I am wondering why a world cruiser like Valiant is choosing rod as mentioned above. I was unaware of this and it seems rather bizarre for a boat intended as a world cruiser.
 
#18 ·
As far as jerry rigging goes, if your wire uses manual fittings, such as Stayloks, then doing proper full repairs in remote locations is easier with wire over rod. If your rigging uses swage fittings, then you are in an equivalent problem, rod or wire. As far as temporay repairs using high-tech line, the two are effectively equivalent.


Rod has advantages over wire, even for cruising. Remember that rod is not some new race riggings. It has been around for many, many years, with the hard core racers using much newer technology.
Rod is:
1. lighter for the same strength. Weight in the rig is important for a cruiser.
2. lower windage for the same strength
3. Rod is smooth and polished, so it does not degrade from air pollution, etc, as much as grooved wire - i.e. longer life
4. A rod rig is probably easier to thoroughly inspect than a wire system -- arguablly.
5. Rod is more expensive than wire.

Paul L
 
#19 ·
Wow, did this thread get hijacked to the wire vs rod theme, or what?

Like Jody, I replaced my rod with rod (we're talking rigging here). I was somewhat concerned when I did this because I plan on cruising from Calif to Florida. My thinking was that rod would provide better strength, seems to last a bit longer, and is less prone to corrosion. What I've heard is rod seldom fails. When it does go, it goes without any warning or signs. The wire, in wire rigging, seldom fails as well. It's the swage fittings or the wire corroding inside the fittings that usually goes. I'm not a rigger, but this is what I've heard.

Now back to the original question... I have never heard of "solid" rigging except maybe carbon-fiber. We're not really sure what Va3wmh was taking about, especially since this was the first post Va3wmh has made. Likely, it was rod rigging. Assuming this, the best advice I can give is to contact a local rigging shop. When I replaced my rigging, I was the first one the boatyard had heard of going rod for rod, everyone previous that originally had rod left with wire rigging. Cost was likely the biggest factor.

Hope this helps Va3wmh.

Skipper, J/36 “Zero Tolerance”
 
#21 ·
I had rod rigging on a previous boat years ago and had no problems with it other than tuning the rig is more difficult and probably not manageble for the amateur. I'd have it again if it weren't so expensive.

My interest in this thread is I trust the OP is replacing part of a rod-rigged vessel's rigging and not mixing rod with wire. I'm pretty sure that would be dodgy.
 
#24 · (Edited)
My interest in this thread is I trust the OP is replacing part of a rod-rigged vessel's rigging and not mixing rod with wire. I'm pretty sure that would be dodgy.
I believe that the FURLEX provides a wire forestay w/norseman type terminal with their furlers - in the belief that wire better suits the furling scenario. It would not be unusual for such a furler to be installed on a boat that otherwise has rod rigging...

We had rod rigging on a previous boat - and had two failures in 12 years. One due to a procedural error by an unknown rigger - the other due to inadequate maintenance/inspection.
In the first case a deck stay (between mast step and deck) failed because the cold formed end had actually been welded to the fitting. In the second, the cold formed end and its fitting had dried out and essentially siezed in place.

Rod rigging that has been released immediately goes into a bit of a spiral (it is stored in a large radius coil) It does not lay straight on the ground. This "spiral" tendency means that as the stay loads/unloads there's actually a torsional "twist" that should be absorbed in the fitting - ie the cold formed end needs to be able to "move/rotate" a little. If this does not occur, the rod will fatigue and fail from the repeated twisting as it leaves the fitting.

In both our failures, this was the cause. In the first case the rod had been welded, in the other the socket seized up - the result was the same. Fortunately for us we saved the rig on both occasions - and after the second event spent some considerable time inspecting and freeing/lubing the remaining rod ends.
 
#22 ·
My understanding is that rod rigging is actually harder to inspect as it gives little, if any, warning prior to failing. Wire rigging generally will meathook and break strands before it fails.
 
#23 ·
I guess it comes down a little to what you mean by inspection. If you are seeing meat hooks in wire, then I'd say you went to far before doing a thorough inspection. You can drop rod rigging and use an inspection dye on all the rod heads. If rod is going to go, it is the cracks in the heads that will most likely go. Like wire rigging, you are more likely to suffer a rigging failure in a one of the connecting components, such as a turnbuckle, a toggle etc.

On the Navtec site is a good description of what a thorough inspection of rod rigging should entail. This is the kind of inspection I was referring to. Something that might be done before setting off on a long voyage while setting up a cruising boat. The walk around the boat and look at the rigging type inspection is another story.

Paul L
 
#25 ·
Not Rod - my mistake

Sorry, I guess the item I'm talking about is rarer than I'd hoped and I didn't specify. What I have is a sold forestay which for most of it's length, i.e., except the bottom and top ends, is about one inch wide by 3/8 inch thick in an approximately flat oval shape. However each edge is slotted to hold the boltrope on the luff of my foresails. I'd provide a picture if I could figure out how.

I'm located in eastern Ontario Canada and what has happened is my forestay was bent about 90 degrees when it was stored on my boat on the hard when it was caught by the shroud of a passing day sailer being towed to be launched.

Thank you all for contributing and I learned a bit about rod rigging. However I'm still looking for a supplier and any assistance would be appreciated.
 
#30 ·
Sorry, I guess the item I'm talking about is rarer than I'd hoped and I didn't specify. What I have is a sold forestay which for most of it's length, i.e., except the bottom and top ends, is about one inch wide by 3/8 inch thick in an approximately flat oval shape. However each edge is slotted to hold the boltrope on the luff of my foresails. I'd provide a picture if I could figure out how.

I'm located in eastern Ontario Canada and what has happened is my forestay was bent about 90 degrees when it was stored on my boat on the hard when it was caught by the shroud of a passing day sailer being towed to be launched.

Thank you all for contributing and I learned a bit about rod rigging. However I'm still looking for a supplier and any assistance would be appreciated.
Would you please, for the love of God, go to the off topic forum and get enough posts to attach a picture or email one of us a picture so that we can post it here.
No one knows for sure what the heck you are talking about.
 
#26 ·
What you're talking about is a headfoil. There are several brands available, Tuffluff (generally plastic) and others. The one you describe with a slot fore and aft is an older style, I forget the namebrand. It's not as user friendly as newer foils which have both grooves facing aft.

Your forestay should run inside the foil... its unlikely that the foil is acting as the forestay itself, but I believe there were such versions.

Since it's damaged I'd suggest going to a rigger and replacing it with a more modern version, of which several makes are available. If you indeed have a combined foil/stay, you'd really be better off replacing it with a conventional forestay and foil (or furler if you want). You likely won't find a direct replacement new.
 
#27 ·
Yes, as faster said, what you've got is an aluminum foil over what is probably wire rigging if the rest of the boat is wire, rod if the rest of the boat is rod...

If the forestay is integral or has swaged fittings, you're probably going to have to replace it.
 
#28 ·
IIRC (and not sure I do) the combined stay/foil such as you describe was made by Streamstay.... Don't believe they are made anymore.

You'll be happier with a newer version, which I assume the other guys insurance (or the yards) will pay for...
 
#29 ·
You're not likely to be able to seperate the damaged/bent foil from the wire forestay. Find a local rigger and install a new forestay and foil. (Keep the old damaged one. It will help with measurements for the new.)
 
#31 ·
Knotty...I think he has one of those old foils OVER his wire headstay that had two luff grooves so you could make easy sail changes on the fly. I could be wrong but that is what it sounds like to me.
These were a bit like the current harken carbo foils except with opposing luff grooves and the wire in the middle.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Cam, you are probably right but until we see a picture of the darn thing we are all just guessing.
It could be a regular furler converted for racing. IE the drum has been removed.
It could be a Tuff Luff but as mentioned that is plastic.
It could be a Stearns or Streamstay but that's not too likely because it's not so easy to get the drums off of those.
A photo would problably answer the question.

More than likely, it's just a furler minus the drum.

edit; Stearns and Streamstays are not split drums.
 
#33 ·
Yeah, did a little research and Streamstay is a furler - with integral drum so probably not that. We had a boat in a local race fleet with a "racing" foil with fore-and-aft grooves so I suspect it's one of those - maybe Hyde produced such a thing at one point, don't know.

A picture would solve that conundrum.. but really, he's looking at a new replacement, most likely, regardless of what it "was".
 
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