Oversized rigging - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 10-22-2008 Thread Starter
Sea Slacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Oversized rigging

Last year when replacing rigging, I went a size (half size, really) up from original on a premise that it'd be "stronger". Since then I've got a few new hairline cracks around mast base (well, not really new, more like old repair failed - but it was ok for a long time).

So, I thought about it and it does seem like bigger rigging increases downward force on the mast base - since rigging is taught to about 10% of design strength, with the larger size my shrouds are now pulling over 1000lbs each, as opposed to about 700lbs with original size - for a total of 6000lbs, most of it pushing down (vs. 4200lbs previously).

Was it dumb to go up in rigging size? Should I untune my rigging a bit to keep it less tight?
brak is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 10-22-2008
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Just cause you went up a size on the rigging, doesn't necessarily mean you have to tension it more than it was previously tensioned. I would reduce the tension in the rigging to what the original rigging was set to.

Did you also upsize the chainplates as well, when you increased the size of the rigging?? How about the mast tangs?

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 20 Old 10-22-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 476
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Send a message via AIM to negrini Send a message via Yahoo to negrini Send a message via Skype™ to negrini
brak, if previous rigg match original plan, designed by a respectable naval architect or serious builder, you should not try to re-design it using your guessing experience. You're just addind a lot of weight aloft, unmatching your keel size/weight. Just where actual trend is exactly to reduce weight ...

Nave Rara
Beneteau Oceanis 43
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
negrini is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 20 Old 10-22-2008
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,566
Thanks: 7
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
I don't think the oversize rigging will have done anything other than make your boat a bit more tender, due to weight aloft. Tension pressure is the same in a thin or larger wire, the first may stretch more and break sooner the second. You COULD tension large wire more, but if you have tuned your rig correctly the force holding your mast in column is the same as before...

Certified...in several regards...
sailingfool is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 20 Old 10-22-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 515
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
I'd detune it, bring it down to the oem level or near it, that's the loads the deck, step, chainplates, and supporting structures are designed for. I've seen a few that were marginal at design loads

See no problem going up in rigging size, Both my boats have the same rigging size, and the Triton is about 3ft longer, and just under 3000lbs heavier than the Ariel. (yeah, I like the old Alberg Pearsons)

Ken.
merc2dogs is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 20 Old 10-22-2008
Pearson 31-2 #80 ('87)
 
Delirious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 374
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 14
 
The rigging diameter has no bearing on it. It is how much you tighten it. Loose 5/16" rigging has less applied force than taut 1/4" rigging. So, if you have tightened it to a % of the breaking strength using stronger (larger) rigging then yes, you have likely exceeded what the cabin top and deck/chainplates were designed for.

Did you beef up the mast collar tie-rod assembly to compensate for the added strength of the rig?

Or is this a deck-stepped mast?

Charlie P. Mud Hen 17 #69 Mad Hatter

To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive - R.L. Stevenson

I suspect that, if you should go to the end of the world, you would find somebody there going farther . . . - H.D. Thoreau
Delirious is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 20 Old 10-22-2008 Thread Starter
Sea Slacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Just cause you went up a size on the rigging, doesn't necessarily mean you have to tension it more than it was previously tensioned. I would reduce the tension in the rigging to what the original rigging was set to.

Did you also upsize the chainplates as well, when you increased the size of the rigging?? How about the mast tangs?
I kept originals - but those (at least chainplates) are much larger than what would be found on a modern boat with comparable rigging (say, on production Catalina - which is what I used for comparison when deciding on rigging size).

I let riggers tune my rigging - and they pretty much set lowers to just under 10% of their spec., uppers - a bit higher. At lower tension (comparable to what smaller size would be tensioned to) they feel a bit slack, but I guess it is the right thing to do anyway.
brak is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 20 Old 10-22-2008
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Yeah, going up a half-wire size will make the boat marginally more tender...but if you're planning on going bluewater, it is a pretty common safety measure to take.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 20 Old 10-22-2008 Thread Starter
Sea Slacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delirious View Post
Or is this a deck-stepped mast?
It's a deck stepped mast.
brak is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 20 Old 10-22-2008 Thread Starter
Sea Slacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by negrini View Post
brak, if previous rigg match original plan, designed by a respectable naval architect or serious builder, you should not try to re-design it using your guessing experience. You're just addind a lot of weight aloft, unmatching your keel size/weight. Just where actual trend is exactly to reduce weight ...
Well, too late for that It's already there and considering the expense and the trouble I've got to live with it. It ain't much weight fortunately and I have a pretty short mast and a fairly heavy boat.

Part of the issue is - presumably original rigging used stainless 304, and most of the rigging now is 316 so half a size up seemed like a way to compensate for the material difference.
brak is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Standing Rigging Too Old? StillInShock Gear & Maintenance 79 11-23-2011 12:18 PM
Rigging repair at-sea Lin & Larry Pardey Gear and Maintenance Articles 1 02-16-2008 12:28 PM
Standing Rigging Basics Mark Matthews Racing Articles 0 08-29-2004 08:00 PM
Replacing Your Standing Rigging Mark Matthews Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 12-15-2002 07:00 PM
Standing Rigging Storage Jerry Hammill Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-15-2001 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome