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  #1  
Old 10-24-2008
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Painting question (s)

I am now on my second project boat. The first one was more of a "gain experience" project. This one I want to do right. I have some general questions:

1) When I hear about "roll & tip", doesn't the brush get coated with paint? How often do you clean it off, every stroke or every so often? How do you clean it?

2) When painting my hull, rolling & tipping, I assume I should go vertically to keep the shortest wet edge. Am I correct? (Will be using 2 part polyurethane) If I paint vertically, I assume I put painter tape at the water line. How do I ensure there is no chance of the paint peeling away once I pull the tape? How do I get the paint on the hull & the paint on the stripe at the waterline to be the same thickness without a visible line where they meet?

3) The paint on the hull is not great, but once sanded may be okay. Do I need to take it all off and apply 2 coats of primer? Can I just paint over the sanded old paint? If I sand the old paint down to a good surface, can I just use 1 coat of primer? Ideas?????

4) I want to use the same paint for the "skid" portion of the deck and cabin as I am on the hull. Should I add a flattener to cut the glare? (I will be using Kiwi Grip on the Non Skid portion)

I realize a spray job is the best option, but I am working within a budget. I have no experience using a spray gun, and do not think this is the best time to learn, so that is why I am going to go with the roll & Tip.

The boat is a 1962 Shark 24. It has been sitting in a field for 5 years, so it is a wreck. (Okay, it was a wreck, I have spent many hours stripping it down, it is now just a mess!) It is one of the first Sharks that they ever built, sail # 43, so I want to redo it right. I have taken everything off of the deck, every damn piece of hardware! I have removed the teak rubrails and toe rails! I have a bare hull and deck, so I do not want to go through this again in the next few years, given the fact that I just refinished a Grampian 23 6 months ago.

Any general tips for using 2 part paint? I know not to spray it without professional respirators, but any tricks I could benefit from?

Yes, many questions, but I have all winter to plan it. I will be sanding over the next month or so until the snow flys, and then building a tent around the boat in the spring to paint it. So, I have lots of time to plan and learn the theoretical way of attacking this project. I already have two of Don Casey's books, but it is easy for a guy with lots of experience to make it seem easy. I need input from regular guys who have undertaken this challenge themselves without the benefit of all the exeperience Mr Casey has (no criticism of Don Casey, his books are a great resource) . I am more looking for things to avoid, rather than the simple instructions of how to roll & Tip. It seems to easy, "Roll the paint using a foam roller, and then tip it out." No one explains how to actually tip it out, what, doesn't the brush get full of paint?

All input is welcomed and greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-24-2008
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I don't claim to be an expert, but I have painted a boat using roll and tip and it turned out ok. The brush doesn't get full of paint. While you are "tipping" the paint ends up mostly on the boat. I used horizontal strokes rather than vertical. For this to work, the paint has to be pretty thin. I used Interlux 333 brushing liquid as a thinner - the main advantage over regular thinner is that it doesn't evaporate nearly as fast. Use good quality painter tape - that green kind is supposed to be best, but I had good results with the regular blue kind from Home Depot and had no peeling issues. Spray guns are very easy, and no doubt you could get a great paint job first time, but you'd probably be dead from breathing the stuff; from what I understand modern boat paint is seriously toxic if atomized, but not a big deal if rolled/brushed. I would have sprayed it, but don't have the necessary breathing gear.
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Old 10-25-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finallybuyingaboat View Post
1) When I hear about "roll & tip", doesn't the brush get coated with paint? How often do you clean it off, every stroke or every so often? How do you clean it?
When I painted my boat, I didn't use one of the recommended brushes. I used a very soft nylon bristle brush from an art supply store. I got a much better finish with this brush (i tried the others) but it didn't hold paint. I hung masking paper at the water line, and at the bottom of each vertical stroke I just wiped the extra paint off onto the paper. The best part was that the brushes I used were in a 3 pack for 3 dollars. I only used the largest brush in the package, and threw it away after each coat of paint. The brush was cheaper than the thinner to clean it.

Quote:
2) When painting my hull, rolling & tipping, I assume I should go vertically to keep the shortest wet edge. Am I correct? (Will be using 2 part polyurethane) If I paint vertically, I assume I put painter tape at the water line. How do I ensure there is no chance of the paint peeling away once I pull the tape? How do I get the paint on the hull & the paint on the stripe at the waterline to be the same thickness without a visible line where they meet?
Vertical is the way I went. I used dark blue paint on the hull with a white boot stripe. First I taped off the water line, then painted the boot stripe with no concern for the upper edge of the stripe. Then I taped the top of the boot stripe and painted the hull. Don't worry about lifting the paint. As long as you let the paint dry overnight before taping, and peel the tape back onto itself. You want the greatest angle posible between the peeling tape and the hull.

Quote:
3) The paint on the hull is not great, but once sanded may be okay. Do I need to take it all off and apply 2 coats of primer? Can I just paint over the sanded old paint? If I sand the old paint down to a good surface, can I just use 1 coat of primer? Ideas?????
2 part paints will lift off 1 part paints. This means you could put a lot of work into prepping the old paint, only to have it peel off while applying the primer. Test your existing paint by soaking a folded rag in thinner that you'll be using, for interlux perfection it will be 2333N, and tape it to the hull for a couple of hours. Pull the rag off and inspect. If the paint is even soft, much less peeling up, I would remove it.

Quote:
4) I want to use the same paint for the "skid" portion of the deck and cabin as I am on the hull. Should I add a flattener to cut the glare? (I will be using Kiwi Grip on the Non Skid portion)
I did. I mixed paint and flattening agent in equal amounts. There is no gloss, but a glow. It's almost like a pearl. I used interlux Intergrip. I don't know anything about Kiwigrip. Intergrip mixed very well with the perfection paint and I have an excellent and very durable non skid on my boat now.


Quote:
Any general tips for using 2 part paint? I know not to spray it without professional respirators, but any tricks I could benefit from?
I thinned the paint a little more than recommended. You'll know how much to thin by how the tipping brush feels. If it drags, you need more thinner. Be careful though, the thinner the paint the easier it runs. Rolling the paint properly is as hard as tipping, if not harder. The trick is to get exactly the right amount of paint on the boat. Too little and you'll get an ugly dry spot, too much and you'll have a custom waterfall scene on the side of your boat. The trouble is that by the time you find out it's too dry it's too late to fix it, and the paint doesn't run until you're about 5 feet past it. By then it is also too late. Don't try to go back and fix anything. You're better off to just wet sand and put another coat on. Find a friend to help roll and tip. One person can do it, but it's at least 3 times easier with 2 people.

I almost forgot about the most important item that most people try to skimp on. Tape. Make your initial line for the water line and the boot stripe with 3M fineline tape. It's a very thin plastic tape. The thinner the tape the less of a ridge you'll have at the line. Press this tape down, I used a wall paper seam roller. Then masking tape. Not the regular tape you get at Home Depot, but tape for painting cars. I got mine at an auto parts store that sold body work supplies as well. Cheap tape has cheap adhesive. The paint will crawl right under it and ruin your paint job. Good tape costs about twice as much as Home Depot tape (both made by 3M) but your entire paint job depends on it.

Exhibit "A"
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Old 10-25-2008
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I almost forgot. Don't plan on buffing out your paint. Not even a little bit. Wax it yes, but not buff it. Once you remove the outermost layer of the paint film, the shine is gone forever.
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Old 10-25-2008
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kiwi grip

you won't need to paint over the kiwi grip. You can mix the colors to come up with something you like. But I don't see a need to paint over it. I've used it on my boat with good results, but don't apply it if the weather is too warm.
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Old 10-25-2008
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US27inKS

That is a pretty impressive paint job on your hull. You got that by rolling & tipping???? Okay, that is a far better result than I thought was possible!
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Old 10-25-2008
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You'd be amazed at how well rolling and tipping can come out.
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US27inKS

That is a pretty impressive paint job on your hull. You got that by rolling & tipping???? Okay, that is a far better result than I thought was possible!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finallybuyingaboat View Post
US27inKS

That is a pretty impressive paint job on your hull. You got that by rolling & tipping???? Okay, that is a far better result than I thought was possible!
Thanks. I have people who refuse to believe it's roll and tip. Then I have to show them a few brush strokes. I know where they are, but they are light and hard to find.

BTW. that paint job represents many, many hours of prep work. I spent 3 months of weekends (at least 12 hours a day) working on the paint job including the actual paint. 90% of the time was prep.
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Old 10-25-2008
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I'd bet it was closer to 95% of the time... and it shows.
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Thanks. I have people who refuse to believe it's roll and tip. Then I have to show them a few brush strokes. I know where they are, but they are light and hard to find.

BTW. that paint job represents many, many hours of prep work. I spent 3 months of weekends (at least 12 hours a day) working on the paint job including the actual paint. 90% of the time was prep.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 10-25-2008
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Prep time is hard to stick to, but every time I figure I am done, I think about having to go through this all again in 2 years, so it keeps me focused on putting in the required time into the prep. I am hoping the snow does not fly up here for another 4 weeks, which will allow me another 75-100 hours to put into the prep. (The boat is in my backyard, easy to go out and grab an hour here and there).

I wish I only had to do the paint. I am doing a full rebuild on this boat. I am going to build a tent around it for the winter and use ceramic heaters when I am in the boat working on it in the winter. No, I will not try and do any temperature dependant work during the winter months, just sanding, sanding, sanding. Oh yeah, I also have to repaint the entire interior as well!
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