diesel fuel - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #21  
Old 12-05-2008
Leither's Avatar
Retired and happy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calvert County, MD
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Leither is on a distinguished road
Moon - Cam's post says it all, IMHO.

In Europe, where diesel is pretty well universal for sailboats, this is a well-documented and researched problem. Sure, water from the fuel source can make a contribution, but the very clear advice from the experts is to avoid conditions which encourage condensation in the tank.

Stuart
__________________
Leith (rhymes with teeth) is the port of the City of Edinburgh in Scotland. A Leither is someone who comes from that area.

I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky - I left my shoes and socks there, I wonder if they're dry?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 12-05-2008
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,878
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 14
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
From Don Casey:
Top-off fuel tanks and add biocide--diesel engines only
Keeping the tank full inhibits condensation, a serious problem for diesel engines. Treat the fresh fuel with a biocide to retard bacteria growth. A stabilizer is unnecessary unless you expect to run the engine during the winter since the paraffin that precipitates out will be reabsorbed by the fuel when warm weather returns.

From BoatUS:
Fuel Tanks
Top off the fuel tank(s) and use additives to inhibit fuel's degeneration. There is a twofold advantage to topping off tanks: With gasoline, it is safer because fumes are minimized, and you will also minimize the possibility of condensation corroding the tank. When you're filling the tanks, leave some room for the gas to expand.


Calder:
When leaving the boat for long periods...fill the fuel tank to the top. This eliminates the air space and cuts down on condensation in the tank. Also add a biocide.

Beth Leonard/Evans Starzinger:
Keep diesel tanks topped off....condensation can lead to water even if fuel enters your tank water free.
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 12-05-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Cam-

Moonsailer isn't about to let the facts get in the way of what he knows...
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 12-05-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 166
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MoonSailer is on a distinguished road
What I """know""" without a doubt that in over 5 years I have had no water in my fuel while keeping my tank about 1/4 full. What I ""Know"" is that physics does not support the ideal of condensation of water in a diesel fuel tank on a sailboat. I also know that a lot of people make a lot of money selling additives and polishing fuel. If you search the internet the first thing you will notice is that almost everyone posting is selling diesel fuel additives. But again I have no dog in this fight. I am just a simple boat owner trying to help other boat owners avoid costly fuel problems. As an aside several sailboat owners at my marina were discussing fuel and most of them did not routinely top off their fuel tanks. Several agreed with me that having 1/2 tank or less worked fine for them. Obviously topping off is not working too well as there are so many posts about bad fuel. Knock on wood but the only fuel problems that I have had were after filling up at Dog River. After it was too late a powerboater warned me over beer not to buy fuel there as they were having trouble.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 12-05-2008
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,878
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 14
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Right...Calder, Casey and BoatUS and Beth are all funded by the fuel additive cabal.

No one suggests that what you do doesn't work for you on your boat in your location. When you pass advice to others that flies in the face of ALL of the recognized boating experts except for one surveyor with a web page then I feel I have to respond. Please understand I am not attacking you Moon...just trying to point out to others that your advice on this issue is highly controversial. People can make up their own minds on this.
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 12-05-2008
Leither's Avatar
Retired and happy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calvert County, MD
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Leither is on a distinguished road
Once again, Cam has the argument well covered.

Moon, I guess that my own experience would be similar to yours ie I haven't had any trouble. My argument would be that this is due to following advice similar to that set out by Cam. In the yacht club which I was a member of in the UK, there were several people who had had major problems with bacterial growth and they swore that they had finally cured the problem by keeping their tanks full and/or using a biocide additive. Additionally, several respected and widely read boating mags in the UK have run articles highlighting the extent of the problem and advising on the solution....

Stuart
__________________
Leith (rhymes with teeth) is the port of the City of Edinburgh in Scotland. A Leither is someone who comes from that area.

I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky - I left my shoes and socks there, I wonder if they're dry?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 12-05-2008
timebandit's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 928
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
timebandit is on a distinguished road
Does this quote from the link below make you wanna say hummm-----??

"As the marina pumps its tanks nearly dry before the next fuel delivery, those who buy fuel from the near empty tank are the ones that are going to get the water (because it's pumped from the bottom of the tank)."

Do they have a floating pick up in the tank??

I don't know, wadda ya think? I thought the water went to the bottom where the pick up is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonSailer View Post
The Myth of Condensation in Fuel Tanks by David Pascoe: Boat Maintenance, Repairs and Troubleshooting

Here is a discussion of the physics involved in condensation by someone who should know.
__________________
Rick
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mac 25
Copernicus
Southern California
I am not a prejudice racist sexist bigot. I just hate stupid people.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 12-05-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 166
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MoonSailer is on a distinguished road
The truth is not a popularity contest!!! But I agree that the overwhelming amount of "expert" advice is to keep your fuel tanks full. Point out the logic of keeping your tank full of 5 year old fuel. Also say that 5 gallons of fuel grows a certain amount of slime....wouldn't 25 gallons of fuel grow 5 times as much slime???? My boat is now in water that is about 55 degrees and the inside of my boat is about the same temperature. The water keeps the boat's inside air temperature about the same night or day. All of the arguments for condensation fall when you look at the facts logically. But people tend to be illogical and when something false is repeated enough it is often taken as being true. I respect Don Casey immensely and have read two or three of his books....but I believe he is wrong on this point. I would really enjoy his comments after he read Pascoe's article. But I have never read any logical arguments for condensation in a sailboat's diesel fuel tank contributing much water. The main danger in the condensation myth is that people get old fuel which has a much longer time to go bad. Most fuel producers recommend using fresh fuel. Again exactly what is the advantage to using 5 year old fuel???? What is the disadvantage of using fresh fuel????
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 12-05-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Moonsailer-

Actually, the amount of fuel and age of fuel is irrelevant if there is no water in the tank. The fuel could be 30 years old, and it'd have NO GROWTH OR SLIME if there was no water-diesel interface in which the slime could grow present. Old fuel is far better than young fuel with water...
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 12-05-2008
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,878
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 14
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
I agree that a majority does not make it right. The problem is his argument is wrong and the experience of many trumps his theory. The logical argument points to the flaws in Pascoes reasoning. The system is not a closed system. There is a vent allowing air out and in. Air will be pushed out and pulled in to the tank constantly with the motion of the boat. Over time there will be plenty of moisture laden air to draw on to condense. A few drops a day is all it takes. The tanks being low in the boat can be at a different temperature than the air. Condensation and a lot of it can form over time. The amount will be dictated by local conditions as Paul says...a problem in many areas...not so much in others.
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bleeding your Yanmar Engine artbyjody Gear & Maintenance 34 03-13-2013 02:03 AM
Filtakleen Ten 35 fuel additive??? Gas & Diesel T37Chef Gear & Maintenance 4 05-05-2008 09:37 PM
Diesel Fuel Essentials Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 03-22-2004 07:00 PM
Diesel Fuel Essentials Tom Wood Her Sailnet Articles 0 03-22-2004 07:00 PM
Diesel Fuel Concerns SailNet Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 07-08-2002 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:03 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012