Dell XFR (Rugged Notebook Touchscreen) at Helm?

[night0wl]

Hey All,

So I've searched through all the threads around Toughbooks and most seem pretty dated. In fact, some of the models mentioned in the threads aren't even offered anymore from Panasonic.

In the meantime, it seems like Dell has made good inroads into the rugged market. As with anytime Dell enters a market...prices plunge. In fact, looking at Dell Outlet right now, one can find a Latitude XFR with a 2.2 Core 2 Duo proc and 2+ gig of memory, DVD/RW for ~$1300. Thats about the price of a low end chart plotter.

If you keep perusing and doing *MANUAL* searches of all the configurations available on outlet, a XFR 2.2 Core 2 Duo w/2 Gb RAM, 64 GB Solid State hard drive, TOUCHSCREEN!! can be had for ~$1700. Take out the solid state drive and its ~$1500.

What are opinions on using this at the helm. Yes, you'd have to wire in a 12v outlet at the helm and craft up a waterproof power connection...but for the versatility offered by having a laptop with a nice 14.1" touchscreen at the helm and the ability to use $600 Raytech RNS or Bluechart at the helm rather than $300 chart cards...its really appealing to me.

A navpod with a couple of clean straps or bungee cords to mount it tight to helm...then pack it up suitcase style and take it ashore. Its MILSPEC so, it should be rugged enough for spray.

Anyone have comments on these screens in direct sunlight? What about water damage?

Anyway...I have a C80 on my (soon to be delivered) Beneteau 343....but I'm not enthused about the chart costs. I could move the C80 to the nav station and replace the helm plotter with one of these. Heck, I could sell the C80 and get two of these XFRs for that price!

By the way, these aren't "refurbished" in the traditional sense...they were ordered misconfigured and returned unused. Rules/regs say that they cant be sold new anymore, so they're immediately put on outlet. And even if ordered refurbished, Dell has 3 year mail in warranty on these units.

I'm very intrigued, but I'd love to know peoples' real world experiences with these ruggedized touchscreen capable laptops at the helm....post 2006

Dell Factory Outlet

[denby]

I'm not sure about a lap top at the helm. I've sailed through some rough weather that probable would have destroyed it. A lap top in the nav station would be great. But I will leave it to greater minds for the helm position.
Personally I would not buy a dell. Four years ago I promised them that I would never ever buy another dell product as long as I live. And I never brake a promise.

[night0wl]

Originally Posted by denby

I'm not sure about a lap top at the helm. I've sailed through some rough weather that probable would have destroyed it. A lap top in the nav station would be great. But I will leave it to greater minds for the helm position.
Personally I would not buy a dell. Four years ago I promised them that I would never ever buy another dell product as long as I live. And I never brake a promise.

Well, this isn't your typical laptop. These are ruggedized laptops. Take a look at this feature list:

* Solid die cast magnesium alloy chassis
* Optional integrated touch screen
* Solid State Hard Drives (SSHD)
* Shock isolated protection for hard drives and LCD display
* Sealed keyboard capable of withstanding the elements
* Super-bright 500nit LCD DirectVue anti-glare display

Was your opinion based on having a a generic consumer grade laptop on the helm, or one of these ruggedized machines?

[sailingdog]

It really doesn't matter if it has those features if the rest of the machine isn't up to spec. First, I doubt that Dell has gone and put a transreflective LCD panel in the machine. Without that, the screen will be nearly unreadable during daylight hours. Second, if the machine isn't sealed and gasketed to at least IPX7 standards, it isn't going to like being in a cockpit environment for very long.

From what I have seen, I believe this is more a semi-ruggedized rather than fully ruggedized computer. Personally, I don't like Dell machines. When I worked with an international news service, we had some as machines for the photographers, and they were very unreliable, and those were machines that were treated considerably better than a laptop in the cockpit of a sailboat would be.

Another issue is reliability. Windows has reliability issues, and given the hostile environment, a dedicated chartplotter would make far more sense than using a laptop. Most of the dedicated chartplotters have transreflective screens that are daylight readable as well. Having a BSOD occur right at the moment you need the chartplotter most would be a bad thing.

IMHO, if you want to use a laptop for navigation purposes, leave it down below where it belongs.

Originally Posted by night0wl

Well, this isn't your typical laptop. These are ruggedized laptops. Take a look at this feature list:

* Solid die cast magnesium alloy chassis
* Optional integrated touch screen
* Solid State Hard Drives (SSHD)
* Shock isolated protection for hard drives and LCD display
* Sealed keyboard capable of withstanding the elements
* Super-bright 500nit LCD DirectVue anti-glare display

Was your opinion based on having a a generic consumer grade laptop on the helm, or one of these ruggedized machines?

[Maine Sail]

NO!!!! I use a tablet every day for work and would never, ever even consider one for use at the helm even if made more rugged. The screen will be un-readable in direct sun. The key thing I see missing is a WATER RESISTANT or WATER PROOF rating.

How will it work when you get salt water in the USB ports, the network port, headphone jack, power plug jack etc etc. on and on.. I own four notebook computers from a Mac to multiple PC's and I rely on none of them for navigation, won't do it.. Planning yes navigation no. Computers are good tools but coming from someone wo uses one 12-14 hours a day 5-6 days per week I can say they are very, very far from reliable and yes this INCLUDES my Mac..

[MrRagu]

NightOwl,

I work for Dell in Engineering here in Austin TX. Actually, one of the guys I am friends with is in Displays (LCD screens) Engineering. I can check with him about your intended use and see what he has to say. There is also a guy that I don't know in Reliability Engineering that might be able to help. He has a pic of sailboats at some slip somewhere, so he might have some insight. I will report back the information I get.

[MrRagu]

NightOwl,

Below is the response from the Displays Engineer.


"Hmm. Dell laptop on a sailboat . Hmmm.

I would be concerned that the high humidity + opportunity for splashing water on it would eventually damage something. I would especially be concerned about the connections between the motherboard and the display. Connections are sometimes subject to corrosion in high humidity / salt spray environments That might kill it.

You could check the Dell website and look up the specifications for temperature and humidity. But I would be leery."

I am also going to check with the Mechanical Engineering folks for their take on it.

Sailingdog - Sorry you don't think highly of our product. Hopefully we can change that one day. What I find is it's not necessarily the hardware, but the technology and the OS that don't seem to be as progressive as the capabilities of the hardware. I have had two other brands prior to working for Dell and those others were junk. My wife said she wasn't getting "ANYTHING but a Dell next time". Luckily, I started working there and she got a discount too!!

[night0wl]

This is unbelievable feedback...what are the odds of someone in Dell engineering giving their take

[denby]

Originally Posted by night0wl

Well, this isn't your typical laptop. These are ruggedized laptops. Take a look at this feature list:

* Solid die cast magnesium alloy chassis
* Optional integrated touch screen
* Solid State Hard Drives (SSHD)
* Shock isolated protection for hard drives and LCD display
* Sealed keyboard capable of withstanding the elements
* Super-bright 500nit LCD DirectVue anti-glare display

Was your opinion based on having a a generic consumer grade laptop on the helm, or one of these ruggedized machines?

I had no problem with the lap top, it was dell company that caused the problem. They put an additional $49 charge on my credit card when I ordered an item for the lap top. When the bill came in I called them and no one could figure out what the $49 charge was for, they said they would send me a corrected bill. Never received the corrected bill but got a call from a collection agency. It took me 8 months to straighten this out and many phone calls that went all over the world to people who could barely speak English. I finally got someone in Florida who took it off my credit card, so I promised him and dell that I would never buy another dell product as long as I live. It's been four years now and no one from dell has ever figured out what the $49 was for.

[night0wl]

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/latit/en/Latitude_XFR_D630_specsheet.pdf','popup575x600','W IDTH=575,HEIGHT=600,RESIZABLE=YES,SCROLLBARS=YES,T OOLBAR=NO,LEFT=0,TOP=20');


Um, check out the front picture on that spec sheet...shows a fire hyrant hose of water hitting the thing!

The XFR is the result of superior design expertise
and a proven Armored Protection System™ (APS),
which is comprised of three powerful elements
unique engineering Designs
• Robust Exoskeleton Structure
• Patent-pending QuadCool™ Thermal Management
System
• Reinforced LCD Assembly
• Overmold Protection System
• Sealed Keyboard and Touchpad Assembly
• Reinforced and Thermally-Enhanced HDD Access Bay
• Secure Battery Protection System
• Dense Magnesium Hinged and Friction Fit Doors
Mil–stD–810F testing
• Published specifications, independently tested
• Operating temperature — -20˚F to 140˚ F
(-29˚C to 60˚C)
• Moisture ingress — 4 in/hr rain, 40 psi (IP54)
• Dust, Dirt ingress — 1.5 m/s – 8.7 m/s wind (IP54)
• Drop/Shock — 36” drop, 26X non-yielding surface
• Vibration — random vibration simulation, 1000 miles
transportation
• Humidity — 0 to 95% non-condensing
• Altitude — 15,000 ft operating
• Crash Shock — 40g, 11ms; 75g, 6ms
• Salt Fog