Got a picture of a storm srysail mounted on separate mast track? - Page 3 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #21  
Old 12-27-2008
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The storm trysail does have advantages over the reefed main sail. First, it's another sail. Blow out your main inadvertently and you've little or nothing to reef down. All this talk of prior planning not putting you in that position conveniently ignores the question, what if you end up in that position despite the prior planning? Much the same might be said for the third reef and getting it set in time. Not a bod idea to have a sail that is independent of track and boom alike. What makes you think you're going to have a boom left?

As bubb avers, bare poles doesn't answer to all situations well. Having a small trysail that has it's own mast track makes much sense for the offshore sailor. How it's sheeted is not of the greatest importance as it's primary function will be to balance the boat. Why ignore the control available from a scrap of storm jib and trysail?
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  #22  
Old 12-27-2008
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Bene505,
It is a pity we did not have a storm trisail and jib for that Sunday (11/16) when we had 50 knot gusts on the Sound with sustained winds in the mid 30's. As someone suggested though you should try rigging them before you really need them. That Saturday under bare poles we were doing 5+ knots while waiting to enter Port Jefferson harbor while the ferry exited the channel.
I am not sure how much a sail loft will charge to put in a 3rd reef point on your old main sail but it could be done for cheaper then a whole new main (obviously). Some sail makers will try to convince you to get a new sail instead of spending less money on adding reef points to an old one.
I have priced storm sails for my 27' boat and thought they were pretty inexpensive but those sails would be pretty small for the Bene505 you own. Apparently a trisail is typically flown without using the boom as an attachment point for the clew although there is no reason you could not use your reefing lines to attach to the clew (unless your boom was gone). For this reason the trisail usually is rigged with two sheets as opposed to one main sheet for the boom in a normal sloop setup.
In the kinds of wind that would make sense to be using a storm trisail and jib it would make sense to remove the main sail from the boom (not to mention Bimini etc) for all the extra windage it presents. For this reason alone it might make sense to just add the 3rd deep reefing point as it is not such an easy job of unloading the main from the boom with your Lazy Jack set up (or my main sail with it's Dutchman setup for that matter) with the decks pounding.
In the interest of not being cheap but not wasting money I like the idea of the 3rd reef point on the main. We could have used that back in November as well.
Happy New Year!
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2008
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A proper trysail is totally independent of the mainsail, set on its own track that ideally goes to deck level so that it can live in a self draining bag while on passage. It balances with a proper storm jib, something a triple reefed main cannot do. It should be hollow cut with no battens to deal with and roped all around. It should sheet to a bridle across the cockpit. The boom should be snugged down on the gallows if you are so equipped, or stabilized if not. The crew should be familiar with setting it before it is needed. Not every weekend sailor needs one, but if you were to travel to Bermuda or the Carribean on the east coast, very far offshore in the Gulf, or down to Baja or outside Vancouver Island on the west coast, in my opinion it would be inexpensive insurance just as a second(or third) anchor is good to have.
US Sailing cat2monohull regulations require both trysail and storm jib
Category 2 - Monohull scroll down to 4.26.4
Category 2 is described as races of "extended duration along or not far from shorelines, where a high degree of self-sufficiency is required". I think that you could say that these sails are even more important close in where a lee shore could quickly develop than farther offshore where searoom exists to run off downwind or drift under bare poles.
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  #24  
Old 12-28-2008
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Mitiempo...can you explain the reasoning behind not taking the clew of the trysail to the boom end?
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  #25  
Old 12-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
... I am not sure how much a sail loft will charge to put in a 3rd reef point on your old main sail but it could be done for cheaper then a whole new main (obviously). Some sail makers will try to convince you to get a new sail instead of spending less money on adding reef points to an old one.
IIRC, Dolye quoted me $595 for a third reef point.
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  #26  
Old 12-28-2008
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Cam, If you tied the clew down to the boom end especially on boats where the traveler is on the cabin top, the forces can bend a boom back on it's self. If that boom is not tied down on the end it is noting more than a very long lever.
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Mitiempo...can you explain the reasoning behind not taking the clew of the trysail to the boom end?
One of the most important reasons to carry a separate storm trysail is that it can be flown without the boom. If you are in conditions that require a trysail you absolutely, positively want the boom strongly secured, ideally in a good gallows or, as is the case in most modern boats, lashed to the deck or cabintop. The shock loads on a boom in the kind of wind that makes steering a joke because of the wave action can easily snap the gooseneck or the boom itself. Every time I've had to deal with a storm trysail I've thanked my lucky stars that it wasn't attached to a flailing, lethal boom. It is far and away better to have a completely separate sail under those conditions. That way your main sail and your boom and track are all still available when the storm passes.

While a third set of reef points is a good option in certain cases, it does not fully replace the need for a real storm trysail on a boat larger than one about thirty to thirty five feet. Smaller boats, with smaller mains and booms, can go that route. Larger boats and boats that will be crossing oceans really should have a storm trysail.
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2008
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Genieskip makes a good point. It does depend on the size of the boat.
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  #29  
Old 12-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
It balances with a proper storm jib, something a triple reefed main cannot do.
Not true.

Hallberg-Rassy 40, storm jib on cutter stay (removable inner forestay), three reefs in main, end-boom sheeting.

I have sailed to windward with three reefs and the staysail in 40+ kts. I was briefly (an hour or so) hove to in 50+ knots.

The biggest benefit of a trysail is that it protects your main for sailing when the storm blows through. I haven't ever heard of one that lets you point to achieve the infamous "clawing off a lee shore."

When caught by a gale in the English Channel there was nothing BUT lee shores ... if I couldn't make progress to windward I was going to wind up on either an English beach or a French one. Alternatively I might have blown onto the Isle of Wight. Instead, I sailed to windward with three reefs and the staysail. 45d ain't great but it was progress.

In a severe thunderstorm on Chesapeake Bay, bare-headed with three reefs in the main, I sailed back and forth on a beam reach until the storm passed.

If you haven't been at the mast in truly stinky weather your opinion doesn't much count on this subject as far as I'm concerned. Being there sure changed my views on a lot of things. If you have really been there we can talk. What the heck do you do with the main? How do you hold on and lash it down? What happens with the trysail sail bag? What do you do if/when a halyard (you do have two main halyards, right?) wraps around a spreader? Do you have enough winches in the cockpit? When do you run the extra sheets? What else is in the way?

My personal experience makes me very happy with a third deep reef in the main. When stinky weather is coming I can spend my time double-checking everything else on deck (what little there is) to make sure it is all properly secured. I'm willing to take the risk that the main will be damaged and I'll have to manage my way somewhere to do repairs or replace it when the weather improves.
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  #30  
Old 12-28-2008
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To the original question looking for pictures of separate tracks on the mast for a storm trysail, here's a pic that shows the setup on my father's former boat:



You can see the track on the starboard side of the mast starting at about the height of the top of the cowl vents running up past the coiled halyard, the gooseneck, winch and then alongside the main sail track.
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