windlass

[wannasail]

Nice sailing,
Am begining the process of looking for an electric windlass for my 38'' boat with a dry weight of 20,000 lbs. Intend to install this off season.
Am interested in ideas as to type, size,horizontal vs vertical, etc.
I have looked at the cataloges and have some ideas but am not certain and would like some advice from those out there that have one and their opinions.

Thanks
Ray

[windship]

wannasail,
May I ask what brand name boat you have?
Do you think your boat will accept a vertical windless with the motor below deck.Does your foredeck have a locker door? Or a chain pipe?
What types have you looked at?
The displacement isn''t THAT important,what IS important, is the size and weight of your ground tackle.
Some boats have foredecks that are very difficult(expensive)to mount a windless on.Sometimes the windless has to be mounted IN the anchor/rode locker...this can be prove to be even more difficult(expensive) and if the locker is not strong enough,it has to be made strong enough and this can be even more difficult(do I have to say it)?
And finnally, how much do you want to spend?
If you will offer a little more info I will be glad to try to help.

Dennis

[WATERNUT]

Dennis is right on the money. Evaluate the weight of your ground tackle. Multiply by 3
That will give you the proper size range.
Vert vs. horizontal? Rope/chain? All chain?
What size chain? Depth of locker? Power source?
All these must be evaluated for a proper install. In my experience a really handy option is a remote control. This will allow you to move about the foredeck whilst dropping or hauling tackle. Only about 150.00 additional bucks. Answer a few of these questions and it''ll be a piece of cake.

The H20nut.

[wannasail]

windship
Boat is an Irwin CC.
There is no anchor locker just an opening to guide the anchor rode into the locaker. Don''t know the depth of the anchor locker but is quite deep.
Will be mounted on deck. Only issue here is the location of the guide opening vs the location of the windlass. There is a location already marked for what I assume is where a windlass should be mounted.
I currently have approx. 10'' of chain then 150'' of rope (size I don''t know off hand) Anchor is a Fortress 30lbs. All this is good for the Chesapeake but have intentions to head down the ICW then into the Gulf and the Caribbean.
I will be changing to all chain and am interested in one that can handle both chain & rope since I would like to have a second anchor up on the bow for safety reasons. Will also be changing main anchor to a Bruce. Will keep the Fortress as a second anchor up forward.
Have not considered price since my first concern is safety. Don''t want to go to exspensive. How about I cite a figure of $1500.00 max.
Thanks
Ray

[WATERNUT]

Ray; thanks for filling in most of the blanks.
I''d like to digest this info and get back with some solid recs.
A few thoughts. Simpson Lawrence/Lewmar makes a good product but parts availability can be a wait.
Maxwell, Lofrans make very reliable units with good service networks.
Horizontal vs. vertical.
Vertical will; accept both rope and chain either with a rope/chain config. or gypsy capstan arrangement.
Will retrieve in several different directions. Can handle two anchors.
Have the most chain to gypsy contact.
Require a fairly deep locker.
Locates the drive unit in the anchor locker.
(This may or may not be favorable as the locker is a rather hostile environment for electrics. I''ve seen many below decks motors turned to mud.)
Horizontals; Will only retrieve forward and inline with the gypsy(s).
They can also handle two anchors.
They dont require as deep a locker or"fall"
They are available in many configs with gypsy/capstan combinations.
The entire mechanisim is above deck. (unless you have an above deck locker)

Afterthoughts; I like HT chain.Absolutely avoid proof coil. I prefer extra length(scope) over chain diameter.
Consider a reversing solenoid for power down.
Don''t forget I recd. a hand held remote.
Allow about a # per foot of boat length for your anchor (+/-).
Ideally I''d carry a double point(Danforth style) and a single point (CQR style)
All chain rodes are great but don''t forget a snubber.
Your windlass will only be as good as your power source. After your wire run you must have a good 12v at the windlass.
Normally I''d have been able to provide this info via sailnets expert line but they canned me last week.
So far so good though we are making some progress here. I''m sure we''ll get additional info from other veterans out there.
Hope this helps.
TheH2Onutster

[windship]

wannasail,
waternut pretty much covered it and nicely I might add.Just one thing.
On a forty foot boat the wire run from the batts is going to be quite lenthy and expensive. You might think about adding a dedicated windless batt up forward,then all you have to do is run a charging wire to the batt instead of one-hunderd feet of no. one wire.Price the batt then price the wire, you''ll see what I mean.Twelve volts at the windless is easy to do.Fifty amps at the windless is not so easy or cheap to do.The added batt might be less than easy to install but I think it makes more sence and I think it''s a better system also.
One more thing... It''s really nice to be able to opperate the windless from the cockpit or the bow, so mabey install a hand switch in the cockpit and a foot switch on the foredeck. A remote would be my second choice because the cord is a pain in the 8ss.

Dennis

[thewaternut]

Thanks Dennis; you are absolutely right. After working out the dollars it is significantly less expensive to run charging wires forward to a dedicated battery. I was able to find a nice little spot in my V-berth area(Olympic 47). I kind of like the redundancy of another battery too.
Usually one would have the engine running whilst retrieving so the battery gets good juice. Dennis is also right about the wire on the remote, although handy the control wire can get in the way. I''m told that wireless remotes are not approved by the FCC in the US. (Maybe someday?) Thanks for the perspective Dennis.
The waternut may soon be leaving the boards it seems that my input may be irritating sailnet. I keep getting an error message when logging on? Any ideas?
It''s been great.
thewaternut.

[wannasail]

Thanks Waternut & Windship(Dennis) for the info. on my windlass questions. Along with your information and what I''ve been able to obtain from others at my marina I think I''m narrowing down my choices and how to set it up.
Another question before I forget. A skipper I talked with over the weekend told me to make sure I find out what the "actual working load" is of the windlass and don''t rely on "max load" which is always cited. He gave example. He purchased a Sprint 1000 with a cited max load of 1000 lbs. After using same he cited having problems raising the 45 lb anchor out of mud & sand bottoms. He estmates the working load to be 150 lbs. after that he has problems meaning motor begins to strain. He said he called Lewmar and they cited max load to him but would not cite actual "working load".
Your thoughts please.
Happy Sailing

[thewaternut]

Wannasail; Good point. In my experience it is usually best to let the yachts momentum whilst gear and usually forward to actually break the anchor loose. Once the anchor is loose it is simply a matter of retrieving the ground tackle. Remember we used a multiplier of three to compensate for windage, et. Also to stay in your price range an oversized windlass will break the budget. Again, it is most helpful to have a switching device forward, a good helmsman, and a workable hand signalling system.
Yelling is not an option.
Please keep the questions coming and I''m sure we''ll get her done.
Did we talk about backing plates?
Rode markers are also cool as it gives you an idea of where you are in the retrieval mode/ scope scenarios.
But that''s just my opinion.
Waternut

[windship]

wannasail,
The info on the working load is correct however if the gentleman is trying to break-out his anchor with his windless, first of all, thats wrong. You use the engine to motor up on the anchor while taking up the slack with the windless then using engine power or just the wind to break the anchor free.I preffer the wind. Using the windless to pull the boat to the anchor and to break it free is incorrect not only do you place needless stress on it, it also draws alot of juice and if the wireing from the engine to the windless isn''t large enough, the windless won''t get the amps it needs to supply it''s max load. (Ask that guy what size wire he used. I''ll bet you it''s too small and if his estimite of one hundred fifty pounds is accurate,I''d put money on it!)This will also cause the wire to heat excessevly creating even more resistance and even possibly a fire.If the wire is too small, you won''t even get working load.
Set up properly, that one thousand pounds is plenty of pull to bring up anchor and chain in any reasonable anchoring senerio.

Dennis