Blue sea ACR - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 01-29-2009 Thread Starter
Detachable member
 
wchevron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 376
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Blue sea ACR

i'm installing a blue sea ACR and a bluesea 8686 battery panel. attached is the wiring diagram from the 8686. it shows the 1 positive coming off each battery to the ACR, then a second positive lead from the battery to the 8686 battery selector. can i run a positive from each battery to the ACR, then go from the ACR to the 8686? the wires from the battery to the current battery switch on the panel are a little short when trying to open & work on the panel. i was hoping install the ACR under the elec. panel. i would take the existing pos. leads connect them to ACR then get some shorter pieces and run them from the ACR to the 8686. i attached the 8686 sketch and what i'm thinking of doing.
Attached Thumbnails
panel0001.jpg   panel 20001.jpg  

wchevron
s/v Time Flies
'78 C-30
wchevron is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 01-29-2009
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Electrically, it is the same thing...they just need to be connected in parallel.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 17 Old 01-29-2009 Thread Starter
Detachable member
 
wchevron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 376
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
thanks sd,
i thought it was the same thing but i just wanted a second opinion. it wouldn't be the first time i wired something wrong.

i have a second question. i'm also installing a new panel w/a digital voltmeter. the wiring diagram shows the neg. going to the neg. bus and 2 pos. wires going form the meter to each battery. could i just run the pos. to the house connetion on the ACR and another pos. to the engine connection on the ACR and get the voltage rating that way rather than run all the way to the battery terminals?

wchevron
s/v Time Flies
'78 C-30
wchevron is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 17 Old 01-30-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
As I recall, the Blue Sea ACR instructions specify only one cable per bolt on the ACR?
floatsome is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 17 Old 01-30-2009
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 20
Thanked 219 Times in 167 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by wchevron View Post
i'm installing a blue sea ACR and a bluesea 8686 battery panel. attached is the wiring diagram from the 8686. it shows the 1 positive coming off each battery to the ACR, then a second positive lead from the battery to the 8686 battery selector. can i run a positive from each battery to the ACR, then go from the ACR to the 8686? the wires from the battery to the current battery switch on the panel are a little short when trying to open & work on the panel. i was hoping install the ACR under the elec. panel. i would take the existing pos. leads connect them to ACR then get some shorter pieces and run them from the ACR to the 8686. i attached the 8686 sketch and what i'm thinking of doing.
A couple of changes you might consider would be to wire your alternator directly to the house bank and add an ANL type battery fuses within a few inches of the both batteries.

By wiring your alternator directly to the house bank you will never run the risk of frying the alternator diodes, and leaving you without charging, by switching through the off position because a load is always connected.

On another note you may want to consider a Echo Charger type of device between banks. Rather than combine the banks, which can be problematic, an Echo type charger uses output from the alternator to turn it's self into a up to 15A charger which is perfect for replenishing a starting battery.

The Echo Charger detects when the house battery bank is being charged and directs a portion of the charge current to auxiliary or starting batteries but does not electrically combine both banks. I currently have a combiner but I am switching over to an Echo this winter as I've never been 100% comfortable with the combiners....

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 17 Old 01-30-2009
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
One other point about what Maine Sail wrote. All the charging sources—solar panels, alternator, AC-based charger— should be connected to the house bank, and the echo charger will charge the starting bank whenever it detects a charging level current on the house side, not just the alternator.

The main two differences between an echo charger and a battery combiner are:

First, under certain circumstances, you can draw down a fully charged starting battery with the battery combiner, since it will try to equalize charge levels between the house and starting battery banks—an echo charger doesn't allow this since it is basically a one-way device.

Second, you can overcharge and possibly damage a starting battery if the house bank is every very badly depleted, since it will reach full charge long before the house bank does and require the voltage to be stepped down, but a battery combiner treats it as part of the house bank, and won't step down the voltage until the house bank reaches the same level of charge. An echo charger is usually a three-stage smart charger, and won't do this, since it keeps the house and starting banks essentially separate.

While I am currently using an ACR unit, I will probably be upgrading to an echo charger type unit later this year as well for these two reasons.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 17 Old 01-30-2009
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 20
Thanked 219 Times in 167 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post

Second, you can overcharge and possibly damage a starting battery if the house bank is every very badly depleted, since it will reach full charge long before the house bank does and require the voltage to be stepped down, but a battery combiner treats it as part of the house bank, and won't step down the voltage until the house bank reaches the same level of charge. An echo charger is usually a three-stage smart charger, and won't do this, since it keeps the house and starting banks essentially separate.
this really is not much of a concern because of the equalization that occurs when the two banks are combined.

Picture two five gallon buckets with a hose and a valve connecting the two. With the valve closed (relay broken or open) the bucket on the left can be drained (like your house bank) but the bucket on the right is still full (starting bank).

When you open the valve between the buckets (relay makes) the water from the full bucket (starting battery) flows into the empty bucket (house bank) until both buckets are equally depleted and at an even level (state of charge). Water always finds level and so do electrically connected lead acid type batteries.

This equalization of the batteries takes more time than it would for water to equalize and become one but with the large battery cables it does happen fairly fast. By closing the relay the full starting battery will be drained off to charge the depleted house bank until both are at an overall equal level of discharge.

Because of this you are not actually overcharging the start battery, except for the few seconds right when the alt fires up, and begins trying to force amps into it before it has dumped its charge off to the house bank. After a few minutes all is pretty much equal..

Hope that made sense..

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 01-30-2009 at 11:14 AM.
Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 17 Old 01-30-2009
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Good point.

Maine Sail-

Just checked my notes on that one...the electrician had installed diodes to prevent the starting bank from equalizing with the house bank..that's why the start battery got fried—in solving one problem, they created another. In a standard installation, it shouldn't be an issue.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 01-30-2009 at 11:42 AM.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 17 Old 01-30-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,853
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
Yeah, but why in heaven's name would you want to draw down a fully charged starting battery (12.7 volts) to the level of a badly depleted house battery bank (12.2 volts or less)?

Doesn't make sense to me to combine batteries. The Xantrex EchoCharge (15A maximum one-way smart device) or the Balmar DuoCharge (30A maximum one-way smarter/programmable device) make a lot more sense. IMHO.

Been running the EchoCharge on my boat for several years. Flawless. Have installed both types on client boats. They work like a charm.

Bill
btrayfors is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 17 Old 01-30-2009 Thread Starter
Detachable member
 
wchevron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 376
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
maine sail,

so if i'm reading this right, i should get rid of the ACR & get an echo charger. any particular model. xantrex? by the way, thanks for the info. glad i haven't gone too far yet.
the new battery selector that came with the 8686, goes, off, on, combine. so i don't have to worry about frying the diodes. that's one reason i went with this selector. i could just envision my kids twisting the dial the wrong way.

if i get rid of the ACR and add an echo charger i'm not sure how it charges. would it charge when the battery selector is in the on position and the engine running or would it only charge when the battery selector is in combine and the engine running?

wchevron
s/v Time Flies
'78 C-30
wchevron is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery Setup: Blue Sea ACR? SEMIJim Gear & Maintenance 34 09-10-2008 10:49 AM
When Tragedies Happen at Sea SailNet Cruising Articles 0 05-28-2002 08:00 PM
Sea Snakes Ralph Doolin Seamanship Articles 0 01-21-2002 07:00 PM
Sea Snakes Ralph Doolin Cruising Articles 0 01-21-2002 07:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome