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bene305 02-01-2009 10:41 AM

Compound for awlgrip
 
Hi,

My hull was painted with an awlgrip about 10 years ago. I'd like to know if there's a special product I can use to shine my hull before applying the ''awlcare product''?

I heard that there's a prduct form 3m (finesse???) which can work on a awlgrip. I want to be sure to use the right product!

Regards,

Maine Sail 02-01-2009 11:29 AM

No..
 
NO!!! Without getting into too much detail there is no good way to buff or polish Awlgrip. Use only Awlcare applied by hand..

DO NOT use Finesse It II or any machine buffer or you will most certainly ruin the finish. Even pros who are trained in repairing Awlgrip still ruin the this hard shell that protects the pigment layer very often. Once you've burned through this hard outer shell the finish is toast..

Paint jobs are expensive please don't ruin yours.

If you need to clean it Starbrite Black Streak Remover is the best I've found for AlwGrip. Follow the BSR wash with AwlWash followed by Alwcare and it will do wonders.

Do not let BSR sit on any part of the finish for long & do small sections with a microfiber rag then rinse it off and move on..

camaraderie 02-01-2009 11:49 AM

I will disagree a little. FinesseItII works just fine when applied by hand but it is hard to do. It will not haze over like wax and it will shine and protect. It is not preparatory to Awlcare...it is instead of. Having used both, I would say just use awlwash to begin with and then use the Awlcare...so in the end, I agree with Maine on what is BEST to use.

danielgoldberg 02-01-2009 12:43 PM

I agree with both these views. I had an Awlgrip finish that was tired. Finesse It II worked well, but we were using it only after the finish already was tired. That said, our yard uses Finesse It II when needed on Awlgrip hulls, and they have tremendous experience and expertise in applying and maintaining Awlgrip.

Maine Sail 02-01-2009 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaraderie (Post 441583)
FinesseItII works just fine when applied by hand but it is hard to do. It will not haze over like wax and it will shine and protect. It is not preparatory to Awlcare...it is instead of.

Cam,

Finesse It II is a paint shop safe micro-finishing compound or "polish" for grade 1500 or higher paint defects. It contains no silicones, waxes or other protective type additives. It will produce a shine as it is intended to do (polish) but does not protect anything. It even says right on teh front of the bottle "Contains no Silicone or Wax". AwlCare and Finesse It II are in two entirely different leagues and do two entirely differnt things. AlwCare is a protective polymer paint sealant that contains ZERO abrassives. Finesse It II is an abrassive polish/swirl remover/ micro finishing comppound that contains ZERO protection..

AwlGrip cures like a clear coat / base coat system with the clear very hard solids rising to the surface of the paint creating a hard, high shine shell. If you buff through this very, very thin layer you've ruined the finish.

Essentially the linear polyester resins can not be re-melted, well actually they can but the melt temp is sooo narrow that you go from re-melt to destroy in just a few degree window. What actually happens when you compound or buff a painted surface is surface melt, because the window time of time between melt & disintegrate is so narrow on AwlGrip it is virtually impossible to buff or polish without destroying the thin hard protective shell.

It is nearly impossible, and totally impossible for a novice who has not had serious specialty training or years working with LPU's, to keep an LPU at the right temp to re-melt without destroying it in the process. To dumb it down it sort of goes like this when buffing Awlgrip.


To cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, right temp for a split second, destroyed.......

Acrylic Urethane two part paints such as Imron can be buffed because the re-melt window is much wider and they don't cure the same as an LPU. The pigment on an acrylic LPU is the full thickness not sitting under the clear solids..

This photo illustrates a destroyed Awlgrip finish. Note the shine on the majority of the hull even after many years. Now look at the center of the photo and you'll notice a large dull area. This is what happens when you chew through Awlgrips "protective shell". It is destroyed...
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/96777108.jpg

Do people buff AwlGrip? Yes but it should only be as a last resort because you will then be a slave to it and it will require AwlCare frequently to maintain a shine..

Here's what AwlGrip has to say (not my words theirs):

"Do not use abrasives, scratch pads, or compounds. Scratching the surface gives dirt a place to cling while wearing out the resin layer. Using abrasives of any kind will reduce the overall life of the finish and voids the Awlgrip Limited Warranty."

camaraderie 02-01-2009 02:43 PM

Maine...thanks. I have used both products on two boats based on the advice of the guy who painted the boats. Found good results to the eye with both but the Finesse was very hard to remove by hand and I wouldn't use it again in any case. I accept your distinction on the products as different in intent.
More to the point...your post points up the danger to all from using anything abrasive or any machine to buff an awlgripped hull. Good advice that may save some expensive paint jobs.
Since this thread will probably be searched by others, I would only add to NEVER use wax on an awlgripped hull either. Awlcare or nothing!!

pschoonveld 03-23-2009 11:11 PM

Maine Sail,

I have a boat who's previous owner applied Awlgrip. The starboard side is mint, but the port side has the look like the photo you posted. It's never been touched by wax or anything and has lived an easy life in freshwater. In fact, the boat has only been in the water for 4-6 weeks in the past two seasons.

The marks are like streaks. My only guess is that the petrol deckplate is on that side, but the marks aren't by the deck drain, farther forward.

Thanks.

Maine Sail 03-24-2009 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pschoonveld (Post 465669)
Maine Sail,

I have a boat who's previous owner applied Awlgrip. The starboard side is mint, but the port side has the look like the photo you posted. It's never been touched by wax or anything and has lived an easy life in freshwater. In fact, the boat has only been in the water for 4-6 weeks in the past two seasons.

The marks are like streaks. My only guess is that the petrol deckplate is on that side, but the marks aren't by the deck drain, farther forward.

Thanks.

Could be fender, mooring ball or winter cover chafe. Have you ever rafted up with neighbors or do you stay at a dock tie your dinghy along side and let it sit there rubbing the hull.??

Anything in contact with the Awlgrip can eventually wear through the outer hard shell as it is very hard but also very, very thin..

This is why products like Awlcraft 2000 or Dupont Imron MS600, which are repairable and buffable, are seeing growth in the paint market and Awlgrip is sagging in market share.

I spoke with no less than 8-9 builders at the Maine Boat Builders show last weekend who are now using AwlCraft 2000 and three using the new Imron MS600. Morris just painted a boat with Imron MS600, as did Hogdon Brothers (read very, very, very high end) and are also potentially looking to make the switch to more buffable & repairable finishes.

Our booth was actually across the aisle from Morris and I over heard a couple of potential cutomers saying they did not like AwlGrip as a finish and were asking about other alternatives. We were also next to New England Fiberglass who uses Imron MS 600 (used to use AwlCraft 2000 but switched) and he had customers complaining about AwlGrip all weekend.

timebandit 03-24-2009 11:34 AM

"AlwCare is a protective polymer paint sealant that contains ZERO abrassives"

I wonder how this would work in place of a wax for other paints?

Wadda think?

Maine Sail 03-24-2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit (Post 465807)
"AlwCare is a protective polymer paint sealant that contains ZERO abrassives"

I wonder how this would work in place of a wax for other paints?

Wadda think?

It works well on Imron & Awlcraft 2000 and I have seen it used on AlexSeal too.

For a one part paint I'd still probably go with a carnuba but for Perfection, Sterling or PPG two part paints Awlcare is a good product. It does not last nearly as long as Collinite but it goes on and off very easily..


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