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best bilge pump switch

44K views 58 replies 26 participants last post by  mikel1 
#1 ·
okay i want/need a new float switch for my bilge pump. i dont want the built in ones due to cycling. i currently have the west marine float, which is giving me problems, it drops down the ball inside moves ( i hear it click ) but it does not shut off about 1 out of 10 times. now if i give it a tap it clicks again, it does not do this all the time, but it killed my battery ( as in need new battery it was cold out ). yes i know i need to fix my shaft seal, ordering that at the same time. the worse part is my hunter has a bilge about 4 inches deep so it fills pretty quick ( as in with no pump about a week )

what does anyone think about the sensor ones like this

Water Witch Bilge Pump Switch

or

Ultima Bilge Pump Switch

i am starting to wonder about the float type, i had rule that went bad, now this one is acting crazy. i want to know if anyone has had problems with the above type? also has anybody found it to draw too much juice when just sitting there? are there any better types out there ?
 
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#2 ·
I could make a list of switches that I have bought, installed and thrown away in the past year. And they're all bloody rubbish.:mad: The money I have spent on these godforsaken things would have easily paid for a labourer to sit on my boat 24/7 with a bucket!!!

I wait with bated breath to hear the answer to this question. Finding a decent auto bilge switch is as easy as reconciling North and South Korea.

Good luck and thanks for having the courage to ask this question
 
#3 ·
okay i want/need a new float switch for my bilge pump. i dont want the built in ones due to cycling. i currently have the west marine float, which is giving me problems, it drops down the ball inside moves ( i hear it click ) but it does not shut off about 1 out of 10 times. now if i give it a tap it clicks again, it does not do this all the time, but it killed my battery ( as in need new battery it was cold out ). yes i know i need to fix my shaft seal, ordering that at the same time. the worse part is my hunter has a bilge about 4 inches deep so it fills pretty quick ( as in with no pump about a week )

what does anyone think about the sensor ones like this

Water Witch Bilge Pump Switch

or

Ultima Bilge Pump Switch

i am starting to wonder about the float type, i had rule that went bad, now this one is acting crazy. i want to know if anyone has had problems with the above type? also has anybody found it to draw too much juice when just sitting there? are there any better types out there ?
I personally use the Water Witch as it allows mounting high and low sensors. Coupled with a multi function bilge monitor and blue sea bilge switches (for auto, off, manual - although the manual you have to continuously press or stuff something on the other side of the switch to keep on - an annoyance)...The nice things about the water switch is you can use them for alarm only applications....and are small enough to place about anywhere and doesn't matter the orientation...
 
#4 · (Edited)
jody i have the auto off manual switch from bass pro shop, it does not have the manual return like yours does, stays in all 3 positions. also it has 2 leds, a green one for when its auto mode, a red for manual, and when its in auto and running both leds light. the green is really dim so it cant draw much at all. best part same 3 wire install, and 20 bucks iirc.

edit: the control switch also has a breaker built in. i cant find it on bass pro site but if you want one to avoid the manual reset part let me know i will get one and mail it to ya. and if you want pics i can get pics of mine installed
 
#5 ·
I like the idea of the Water Witch over the usual float-type, but I haven't heard enough "field testing" to convince me of their durability.

Of course, I like the idea of the Tank Tender system for running on air pressure instead of volts, but I'm less keen on the price and the experimentation necessary to figure out each tank's calibration.
 
#6 ·
I have tried nearly all the available auto switches for the bilge including the sonic ones and pressure sensing circuits. Nearly all of them failed sooner or later.

Now I use two bilge pumps: One is connected to the service battery and located deeper than the second one. This is the "always" working one. The other is located higher than the first and the source is the engine battery. If the first one fails, the second one works. There is small electronic circuitry that informs when the second one operates. This way I can keep the bilge dry (nearly).
 
#7 ·
kind of a free bump for more opinions and with some info too

okay lots of reading. i thought the float switch i had just had a metal ball that hit 2 contacts shorting them out to get the pump to run. i found out it uses a ball to close a physical switch which can stick, and i guess mine has. the west marine one i have is rebranded, but what dont they rebrand.

i found 6 reviews on the water witch, one said it worked fine for 6 months then died, the other 5 all said it works great. i did find one review where the only failure was a guy had his RO pump line failed and could not sense ultra pure water but it worked fine on normal water. i guess i will give it a try.

i also found out some complaints about the sensor type some say oil will foul them but less in the inductive type like the water witch. it is more for the other electronic type. now i know how the induction type works, and even if it gets oil on it, it only needs a very small surface clean to work

normal disclaimer no connection to anything etc etc
 
#8 · (Edited)
After six failures of various commercial units, I built my own. Then I built two more for friends. The oildest is now more than 3 years old and still working fine. PVC vertical tube. Internal connical foam float with small weight on the bottom to act as return and a magnetic switch (no contact neccassary, and no metal exposed to water). The float rises a couple of inches and the mag field activates a relay (the weak point as I see it, but one completely in the dry of the breaker box). Relay activates the pump.

I had an idea about adding a small mast to the float with a second mag-spot and a second mag sensorfurther up the tube. Float rises slightly, bottom pump comes on, float rises more, both secondary and primary pump activates as both mag sensors line up...Have not tried that one yet.

The nice thing about the mag switch is that there is nothing to corrode or leak away or for the pivot point to clog or corode...and all the other things that go wrong with standard units.

Alex.
 
#11 ·
PVC vertical tube. Internal connical foam float with small weight on the bottom to act as return and a magnetic switch (no contact neccassary, and no metal exposed to water). The float rises a couple of inches and the mag field activates a relay (the weak point as I see it, but one completely in the dry of the breaker box). Relay activates the pump.
So the float goes up and activates the switch which switches a relay which powers the pump. That part I understand. But then the pump runs for a short while, removes an inch of water and the float drops. Does this not disengage the switch and deactivate the relay, stopping the pump? How do you keep the pump running until the bilge is empty? And if you have a way of keeping the pump running as the float goes down, how do you stop the pump running when the float gets to the bottom? :confused:

If I could figure that out I'd make my own as well but . . . . I'm probably a bit slow.:(
 
#9 ·
Andre and Alex,

I feel your pain, having also tried most of the switch types on the market and with mixed success over a 25 year period. Also, from seeing dozens of customer vessels with their bilge pump switch problems.

The most reliable switches are generally considered to be those in the Ultimate Switch family. Not suprisingly, they are quite expensive. They are warrantied for 5 years, and users report amazing success.

Over the past ten years or so I've been using a succession of sensor switches...those which essentially are activated whenever water comes in contact with the sensors on the small units. Generally, these work pretty well, but only if you keep them really clean. If oil builds up on the sensors, you get flaky results, including a switch which fails to turn off. I run two of these all the time on my boat, and clean them periodically. Happily, I have bilge pumps which are not harmed if they run dry, which has occasionally happened when the darned little switches fail to turn off.

When I get tired of fooling with these inadequate devices, I'll probably spring for a couple of Ultimate Switches.

Bill
 
#15 ·
Andre—

With that long a lever arm for the switch, you're going to need the water to move quite a bit before it could throw the switch.

One solution would be to use a float in a tube, and have magnetic reed switches in the tube. One, say two inches above the top of the float would turn on the pump, and one at the normal position of the float with an empty bilge could be used to turn off the float. That would prevent the bilge pump from short cycling over and over again due to back flow.

Another way would be to mount a normally closed magnetic reed switch at the height of the float for a dry bilge, and then when the float rises, the switch closes... it wouldn't open until the float dropped back down to the normal, dry-bilge resting position. You could vary the sensitivity by making the magnet smaller or bigger.

I like magnetic reed switches, since they're normally potted in solid epoxy and basically waterproof and corrosion proof for that reason.
 
#19 ·
With that long a lever arm for the switch, you're going to need the water to move quite a bit before it could throw the switch.
The movement on the arm would be directly proportional to the size of the sector in which the switch is located. Small sector, small stroke. If necessary, the sector could be small enough to only accommodate the throw distance of the switch. But I do get your point.

One solution would be to use a float in a tube, and have magnetic reed switches in the tube.
Sounds like a decent solution but two things - first, what device would you use on the float that will trigger a magnetic reed switch that would not rust (perhaps a magnet :) ) and second, what is the required proximity of the trigger to the switch. If it needs to be neat, would you not have problems with the float getting oil or dirt on it and sticking in the tube?

Forgive my ignorance, I have little knowledge of the functionality of magnetic reed switches. So if the mag switch closes and the device that caused it to close goes away, does the switch stay closed? If so, how does the pump switch off if this circuit stays "made". If not then the pump will stop running as soon as the device that closed the switch moves back down the pipe. I'm obviously missing something here.
 
#16 ·
After going through several external switches, I ended up getting a Rule pump, but not the kind that comes on every two minutes. Instead mine has an internal electronic water detecter that turns it on. Once on, it runs for about 20 seconds after the water level drops. This gets extra water out and as a result, the pump runs less frequently. The boat it's in takes on a lot of rain water and it's been working for two years now which is about 22 months better than I ever got with an external switch.
 
#18 ·
Alex (Sasha),

Please post some pictures. Also, I'd think that a totally separate float switch would be better than a second higher-up switch on the one float. Better to have full redundency.

A delay can be bulit quite easily with a simple 555 timer built from parts at any Radio Shack. You might be able to make something out of a capacitor, resistor, diode and some nand gates, I think.

Anyone know if there's a vacuum-style pump that would suck up the water that comes back down the tubing after the bilge pump turns off?
 
#21 ·
I have a PAR Hydro-air 34875-0000 ITT Jabsco- Costa Mesa, Ca. It's a pneumatic switch that has served me well since purchased in 1988. The only part in the bilge is a piece of tygon tubing (aquarium hose) attached to a plastic bell. I have had a need to clean the bell out once every few years if it clogs with debris. All the switch parts that respond to the increased pressure when water rises up the tube are in a convient dry locker well above the bilge. When the water receeds, the pressure drops and the pump is swithched off. I wouldn't have anything else. Simplicity rules!
 
#23 · (Edited)
Andre-

NO. The switches are normally closed when no magnet is near them.

BOTH SWITCHES CLOSED-dry bilge
===================sw1=sw2====
-TOP-------------------------------MAGNET------------------------FLOAT
=============================
Magnet is holding both switches OPEN, no pumps on

MAINTENANCE PUMP ON-2" water in bilge
===================sw1=sw2====
-TOP------------------------MAGNET------------------------FLOAT
=============================
Magnet moves from maintenance pump switch, sw2, and maintenance switch pump switch closes, turning on maintenance pump

DEWATERING AND MAINTENANCE PUMPS ON-4" water in the bilge
===================sw1=sw2====
-TOP----------------MAGNET------------------------FLOAT
=============================
Magnet moves from dewatering pump switch, sw1, and dewatering switch pump switch closes, turning on dewatering pump, maintenance pump already running.

Got it now I hope. :)
 
#24 ·
This is probably becoming a PITA for others on the thread but I still don't get it. Probably I'm just misinterpreting what you're saying.

In my experience, a normally-closed switch means that unless activated, the circuit is made. A normally-open switch would mean that unless activated the circuit would be broken (as in "open circuit"). Maybe in the US this is different. If so that deals with half my problem. But your comment below of "Magnet is holding both switches OPEN, no pumps on" tells me my understanding is correct, even in the US.

However maybe my misunderstanding extends beyond that. Your diagram below indicates to me that the magnet is "below" the switches, the second that it is next to the SW2 and the third that is next to SW1. Is that right or am I misinterpreting this part of your discussion?

===================sw1=sw2====
-TOP-------------------------------MAGNET------------------------FLOAT
=============================

So if my understanding of a normally closed switch is incorrect, how can a magnet that is not opposite the switches hold the switches open? If my understanding of a normally closed switch is correct, then your first diagram shows pumps that are already running.

Are we talking cross-purposes here??

Anyway, whatever your response to the above, my point actually is that unless the magnet is opposite the switch, the pump won't run. That seems clear to both of us. So when the pump starts to run (after the water reaches 2'') it will immediately start lowering the level and cause the magnet to move away from the switch and the pump will stop. The 2" of water will still be there. Sorry, this is too simple, I can't even make it sound complicated.

The solution I'm looking for will see the pump carry on running until the 2" of water has been pumped out. As said in an earlier post and outlined above, your system doesn't achieve that.
 
#27 · (Edited)
This is probably becoming a PITA for others on the thread but I still don't get it. Probably I'm just misinterpreting what you're saying.

In my experience, a normally-closed switch means that unless activated, the circuit is made. A normally-open switch would mean that unless activated the circuit would be broken (as in "open circuit"). Maybe in the US this is different. If so that deals with half my problem. But your comment below of "Magnet is holding both switches OPEN, no pumps on" tells me my understanding is correct, even in the US.
That is exactly correct. THE MAGNET IS HOLDING THE SWITCHES OPEN WHEN IT IS NEXT TO THEM.

However maybe my misunderstanding extends beyond that. Your diagram below indicates to me that the magnet is "below" the switches, the second that it is next to the SW2 and the third that is next to SW1. Is that right or am I misinterpreting this part of your discussion?

===================sw1=sw2====
-TOP-------------------------------MAGNET------------------------FLOAT
=============================

So if my understanding of a normally closed switch is incorrect, how can a magnet that is not opposite the switches hold the switches open? If my understanding of a normally closed switch is correct, then your first diagram shows pumps that are already running.

Are we talking cross-purposes here??

Anyway, whatever your response to the above, my point actually is that unless the magnet is opposite the switch, the pump won't run. That seems clear to both of us. So when the pump starts to run (after the water reaches 2'') it will immediately start lowering the level and cause the magnet to move away from the switch and the pump will stop. The 2" of water will still be there. Sorry, this is too simple, I can't even make it sound complicated.
YOU'RE CONFUSED. The normally closed switches won't run when the magnet is next to them, since the magnet is holding them OPEN. When the magnet rises, due to water in the bilge, and moves to the left in my drawing, the first switch to "deactivate" is SW2. This means that switch now closes, since the magnet is no longer holding it open-because it is a normally closed switch.

As the water continues to rise, pushing the magnet higher (or further to the left in my drawing which is on its side), then SW1 "activates"-causing the big dewatering pump to turn on-because the magnet is no longer holding that switch OPEN.

The solution I'm looking for will see the pump carry on running until the 2" of water has been pumped out. As said in an earlier post and outlined above, your system doesn't achieve that.
By adjusting the position of the lower reed switch, you can minimize the amount of water left in the bilge. However, you have to balance the amount of water with what happens when the hose backflushes as the pumps shut down. By making the "maintenance pump" a small one with a small diameter hose, you reduce the amount of water that can back flush.
 
#30 ·
the magnet and reed switch is just as likely to hang up with crap unless the float is larger enough to force up the rod, then you need enough weight to force it down if it is sticky

face it if a perfectly clean bulge with no oil or debris the good old fashioned float switch made from decent parts will last for ever. problem is there is not perfectly clean bilge when it counts and building the float switch out of the best parts would cost 100 bucks and never sell because it cost too much.
 
#31 ·
the magnet and reed switch is just as likely to hang up with crap unless the float is larger enough to force up the rod, then you need enough weight to force it down if it is sticky

face it if a perfectly clean bulge with no oil or debris the good old fashioned float switch made from decent parts will last for ever. problem is there is not perfectly clean bilge when it counts and building the float switch out of the best parts would cost 100 bucks and never sell because it cost too much.
Hey Scott, as it happens I'm with you on that, the fact is if I could buy one of these switches that's GUARANTEED to work and keep on working, I'd pay $200 with a smile.

I've tried so many different ones and none of them work. So, guess what? I'll try my own ideas and see how it goes.

I just seem to have got myself embroiled in a discussion that is intended again to make me look stupid using a defective idea.

Sorry if it isn't the result you expected from the thread. I'm getting to the end of my enthusiasm for it so it may end soon enough.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Maintenance bilge pump

Just installed a Water Witch 101 switch connected to a diaphragm pump to act as a maintenance bilge pump. Installed the switch, sensor down, about a 1/2" above the bottom of the bilge. Keeps the bilge with about 1/4" of water in it, only because thats the most the pick up/strainer will get (unlike typical centrifugal pumps, diagram pumps can be run dry). If I had a low spot in my bilge, it would keep the rest of the bilge dry. I'm tempted to grind some fiberglass, but don't have the guts to mess with the bilge/keel! Anyway, 1/4" is better than 2". Keeps the water fresher and keeps the main pump and switch dry for when I really need them:eek: I like the Water Witch, though the first one they sent didn't work. The guy at Water Witch sent me a replacement without hesitation. Good customer service but it sounds like QC isn't what it could be, which concerns me. My solar panel keeps the batterys charged so the pump and switch are not drawing too much power, even though we've had a lot of rain.
 
#35 ·
I can almost sympathize with you guys, but my boat doesn't have a bilge pump. The accepted tool seems to be a large sponge. Because it is an Etap.

However, if you want a reliable switch you need two things. An encapsulated reed switch to sense a magnet on your float. I've used these to sense magnets on a wheel to provide speed and distance, and have never had one fail, despite hundreds of installations, and literally billions of switch operations. Go to Newark Electronics, or Digikey for the switches.

Second you need a low energy coil relay to handle the pump motor current, and only put a very low load on the reed switch. Relays are reated for operations at rated current. Pick one with a rating of a million operations at the current you need to carry and it will last almost forever. You could also use solid state relay, just make sure it is overrated for the current.
 
#41 ·
float switch remedy

I have had six charter sportfishing boats 50 - 90 feet over the last 30 years. USCG subdivision requires 4-6 compartments and a switch in each compartment. I know your pain here! I now run a very leaky 50' carvel planked live bait seiner. The only float switch solution I have found over the years is the toilet bowl plunger or anything that keeps the switch out of the water.

Take a 2x4 and two small eye bolts. Put one eye bolt in either end so the plunger rod can slide through them with about 2-3 inches of slide movement. Mount the flopper on the top of the 2x4 so the threaded end of the plunger with a fender washer on it pushes up the flopper switch up and stops with the switch in the "up" position. Mount the 2x4 to the boat so in the "down" position the float end stops on or close to the hull. The switch and all the wiring never get wet and it lasts for years. Kind of for a yacht or pleasure boat application but i'm sure you can come up with something pretty. I also use those shrink tube style but connectors for the wiring.

Just discovered Rule makes a "gold" edition 12v pump with a five year warranty. I haven't tried it yet but at least the problem of pumps going out would be easier on my pocketbook if they'll replace them.
 
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