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  #31  
Old 03-24-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serah View Post
In the style of AllThumbs, and in the interest of keeping my myriad of questions together, I'm making an attempt at a "project boat" thread, if only to remind myself of the hours put into her when the 2'-itis starts itching.

Here are a few of the key projects we're hoping to do by the end of the summer ...
"There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man's whole life is a succession of moment after moment." - Yamamoto Tsunetomo, samurai.

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

Good luck getting everything done one thing after the next!
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  #32  
Old 03-24-2009
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So the collective wisdom is wise indeed. The delamination project has been postponed, and as such will be done from above come fall - we came back to our original promise of keeping her useable while we fix her. We'll lose probably two months - October & November - for all the dry storage projects: install a new sounder thruhull, barrier coat, paint the bottom, buff, polish and wax the topsides, repair the deck, strip the deck paint, repaint and apply new non-skid. Phew!

However, we still have to address that water seepage into the v-berth, as we're not putting up with it all summer. We're not even trying to mitigate the deck damage at the moment; we just want to stop the water from dripping through. We may cut a thin strip at the aft edge of the wet core and fill it with epoxy to prevent further penetration. We will remove the pulpit, running lights and the forward cleat, and reseat them with sikaflex, skipping the epoxy bedding step. The cleat will likely get a new backing plate as well, if it has to withstand a summer of use. Will this work? Is there an alternative temporary solution?

The engine is in for a tune-up session with the boy as I type - we'll hopefully mount it again this evening.

Great quote for her, wind magic! We'll have to find a way to display it somehow.
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"I have always known that at last I would take this road, but yesterday I did not know that it would be today." - Narihara
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  #33  
Old 03-24-2009
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Since all this will likely be coming off again for the repair, perhaps use a non-adhesive sealant (life-caulk?) instead of Sikaflex (unless Sika makes a pure sealant - perhaps they do) Apart from that, I think you'll be happy with this newer plan, and should you keep the boat the repairs will be more robust and/or an easier resale in the future!

In meantime avoid any Irish dancing on the foredeck (which would be a challenge anyway given the camber of the deck.... )

And have a great summer!
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1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

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  #34  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serah View Post
Great quote for her, wind magic! We'll have to find a way to display it somehow.
Here are two other quotes from Yamamoto Tsunetomo that are powerful, but they might not be the kind of thing you would want to display on a boat!

"Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day when one's body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one's master. And every day without fail one should consider himself as dead."

and

"As everything in the world is but a sham, Death is the only sincerity."

Moral - it's probably best not to tease samurai warriors!
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  #35  
Old 03-24-2009
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Serah, have you considered making a clean cut in the skin around the repair area, reparing the core and re-glassing the coupon back in place? This seems like the simplest way to make the repair and it would reduce the amount of glass and resin needed. If you did the repair this way you could also inject epoxy into the new core and make the bond extremely strong.

Also, does the deck have a balsa core or a plywood core. Plywood is more common on that vintage boat? Balsa was around in 74 just not real common. The fact that the boat is still solid makes me wonder if the core is balsa. Balsa turns to mush when it is wet and could almost be vacuumed out.
Another note, rotten balsa may be toxic. This is purely anecdotal, but a friend got some of the residue from rotten balsa on the tip of his tongue and within a second or two became violently ill. May have been coincidence but just a heads up anyway.
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Old 03-25-2009
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A couple of problems with this approach.

First, getting the old skin to properly bond with the new core is more difficult than using new fiberglass laminate—which will contour itself to the new core, which may not match the old skin.

Second, injecting epoxy never really helps. The strongest and best laminates have a minimum of excess resin. Resin itself does not really ad much strength to a laminate.

Plywood is the worst of all core materials. It is heavy, unlike foam and balsa. It rots like balsa, and it allows water and delamination to migrate long distances rather quickly like foam... there's really no good reason to use plywood as a core material. In many cases it was used because if offers better compressive strength than either foam or balsa.... but in cases where compressive strength is required—solid glass should be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJ34 View Post
Serah, have you considered making a clean cut in the skin around the repair area, reparing the core and re-glassing the coupon back in place? This seems like the simplest way to make the repair and it would reduce the amount of glass and resin needed. If you did the repair this way you could also inject epoxy into the new core and make the bond extremely strong.

Also, does the deck have a balsa core or a plywood core. Plywood is more common on that vintage boat? Balsa was around in 74 just not real common. The fact that the boat is still solid makes me wonder if the core is balsa. Balsa turns to mush when it is wet and could almost be vacuumed out.
Another note, rotten balsa may be toxic. This is purely anecdotal, but a friend got some of the residue from rotten balsa on the tip of his tongue and within a second or two became violently ill. May have been coincidence but just a heads up anyway.
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  #37  
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The strong camber on the foredeck of the Swiftsure would make a plywood core unlikely, it's definitely a strong compound curve, and we all know plywood is reluctant to do that....
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1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

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  #38  
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According to our surveyor, the core is indeed balsa, which is what we will eventually be sticking with.

We did consider simply using the old skin, but for the reasons sailingdog listed, chose not to. If it was perfectly flat, maybe, but there is not a square inch of flat deck anywhere forward of the cockpit on this boat. It seems almost guaranteed that the bond to the core wouldn't be as complete. And no, the deck is not solid. It feels as if there's at least an inch of give when I walk on it. As Faster said, no Irish dancing for me We may still install some sort of support beam in the v-berth as a temporary make-me-feel-safer option.
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Old 03-26-2009
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Just to be clear, I was not advocating ply as a preferred core, just stating that it was more common in the early 70s than balsa.

Given the compound angles of the foredeck on Serah's boat, I would suggest Divinicell over balsa. Divinicell is much easier to shape into complex forms.

FWIW, the deck of my San Juan 34 was built using the following method:
The inner skin (headliner) and outer skin (deck) were layed-up in seperate molds so they were completely seperate pieces. The balsa core was put into place on the inner side of the deck with lightly catalyzed resin, then resin was applied to the mating surface of the headliner. The "Balsa Sandwich" was then pressed together and put under a vacuum bagged for 24hrs to fully catalyze the resin. The result is an extremely strong deck that after 23 years is still rock solid. This is still a common way to build cored decks, so it's probably a valid method for repairing Serah's.

I am a sucker for doing things the easy way (I'll admit, sometimes I spend more effort finding shortcuts than if I just rolled up my sleaves and went to work). Laying up a deck or worse yet an over-head surface with glass cloth is miserable work and almost impossible for the laymen to make perfect.
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Old 04-15-2009
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So I'm back. Changes in work schedules, and all of our free time put to actually working on the boat make for crazy times. So here's what we've accomplished so far:
*Removed the pulpit, and resealed it with sikaflex (this solved 80% of the water seepage problems in the v-berth. Oh, the contortions required to remove those bolts!)
*Installed new running lights (solving the remaining water leakage issues)
*installed new SS life lines. She looks like a respectable yacht now (well, as much as a 24 footer can be a yacht! There are no turn buckles, but the pelican hooks do a good enough job. We simply strung it all out with a bit of excess cable, tensioned it all, and marked the correct length, cut it and attached it all with Nico presses (tension is maintained when we open the gates with gate locks.) Certainly made the endeavour much more afforable, and looks almost as good. If we choose later to add the turnbuckles, it should be easy.
*Reinstalled the main wiring (installed a battery switch, a ground bus, and a tiny electrical panel) We have a 12V plug that will go in this week, from which we'll run an old inverter, which will power my tablet and GPS. We also have two small gel cell batteries as a backup power, as we're planning on adding a stereo soon. *
*Resealed the leaking port shroud
*Installed a drain hose for the ice box
*Built a laminate table with teak edging, on a removable pedestal. There's a base in the saloon, as well as in the cockpit. Eventually, it will be warm enough for wine at sunset in the cockpit! We cut a hole in the deck, sealed the edges with epoxy and then bolted a flush mount in the hole.
*Sewed a curtain for the head
*Installed a light in the head
*Resealed the companionway hatch hinges
*Installed a rubber/SS latch to the fore hatch
*Installed hatch tape to fore hatch
*reran the traveller (though we like the new setup possibly less than the original!)
*scrubbed down all the teak (even that made a huge difference in how she looks)
*installed a safety wire for the backstay
*ran a reefing line along the boom
*"fixed" the outhaul attachment by securing a jam cleat to the boom with a tap and die set.
*complete overhaul on the engine (of which I know nothing )

Busy times! We've discovered that there are two parts of the deck that are actually wet enough that they make a "squish" sound when you step on them. One is close to the foreward-most port stanchion, the other one is in the cockpit where it's raised for the traveller. *sigh* We still haven't figured out exactly what our plan to deal with the deck is, but it's likely between two and six months on the hard in the fall.

All this on top of getting out and sailing the heck out of her for the past two weekends. (and running into shawmac while out on the water!) She is a dream to sail, though easily overpowered compared to what I'm used to. She's responsive, and immensely tweakable. She points well, though we suffered through a rather bad bout of weather helm while overpowered on a close haul. We didn't notice it normally, and I assume this will disappear when we don't have too much sail area up.

We crossed the straight (again) for Easter to meet up with my family. There's something incredibly satisfying about being able to just leave my father (who orginally taught me how to sail) behind on downwind legs, even in moderate winds, and even when just flying the large genoa.

This week is the dreaded masthead adventure - looking into running a third halyard, replacing both the genoa and main halyards, as well as a wind indicator and possible masthead light, lazy jacks and new spreader tape.

*As you've likely noticed, we've definitely moved more in the cruising direction than in the racing direction. Comfort over speed, though many of the additions (like the extra batteries) are removable for when we don't want to be pushing all the extra weight out of the way.
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