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huguley3 03-18-2009 05:51 PM

OMG my boat leaks!
 
I had some excitement this morning when I got up and found several leaks from the first real rainstorm since I got here in January.

Leak one looks like it is coming through a shroud chainplate. Comes through at a pretty good clip. Their was some really sad looking cracked up grey putty around the chainplate on the deck. The surveyor recomended removing them and inspecting them so its possible that I was thinking I would fix it then and not worry about it. In any case I scraped off the sad putty and smeared it with silicone for now. There is rain forecast for the next couple of days so I can't do anything with it right now and will just have to hope the silicone holds up. Until I get them pulled out and let the wood dry and pack it with butyl.

Leak 2 is a window in the main area. My boat has those large non-openable type of windows. I think I found the issue and gave it the same silicone treatment as the chainplate. My issue here is that I am not sure how to go about fixing the window. It looks like it has been taken out once and the plastic did not quite go back together properly. Its kind of wavy and there are gaps(hence the leak I think) where the edges meet. I did some quick googleing for some kind of replacement but did not find much except for portholes. I guess I am wondering if anyone has dealt with replacing those large static windows? it would look kind of funny if I 3 ports on each side but I find I keep the curtains close all the time anyway so its not like the big windows are an asset especially in the sun.

Leak 3 seemed to be coming from the starboard inspection hatch in the cockpit. I took it off and I can see why it was leaking. The screws were barely holding in the fiberglass so even resealing it is only going to last a little while. The cover for it is just a black piece of plexi with 6 screws holding it in. Is there a better solution for this? I can expoxy in the holes and redrill them but it just seems really poorly designed. Especially given that you can get to that space from the berth that is right under it and the headliner has an 8 foot zipper that lets you pretty much crawl right up in there. So its really kind of pointless. It does have the bracket and power connector for the autopilot controller mounted to it which I am still trying to figure out why they did not mount the controller on the pedestal someplace so you don't have to trip over the cord that runs to the motor(st3000 autopilot).

So any suggestions for the windows and inspection window?

artbyjody 03-18-2009 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huguley3 (Post 463689)
I had some excitement this morning when I got up and found several leaks from the first real rainstorm since I got here in January.

Leak one looks like it is coming through a shroud chainplate. Comes through at a pretty good clip. Their was some really sad looking cracked up grey putty around the chainplate on the deck. The surveyor recomended removing them and inspecting them so its possible that I was thinking I would fix it then and not worry about it. In any case I scraped off the sad putty and smeared it with silicone for now. There is rain forecast for the next couple of days so I can't do anything with it right now and will just have to hope the silicone holds up. Until I get them pulled out and let the wood dry and pack it with butyl.

Leak 2 is a window in the main area. My boat has those large non-openable type of windows. I think I found the issue and gave it the same silicone treatment as the chainplate. My issue here is that I am not sure how to go about fixing the window. It looks like it has been taken out once and the plastic did not quite go back together properly. Its kind of wavy and there are gaps(hence the leak I think) where the edges meet. I did some quick googleing for some kind of replacement but did not find much except for portholes. I guess I am wondering if anyone has dealt with replacing those large static windows? it would look kind of funny if I 3 ports on each side but I find I keep the curtains close all the time anyway so its not like the big windows are an asset especially in the sun.

Leak 3 seemed to be coming from the starboard inspection hatch in the cockpit. I took it off and I can see why it was leaking. The screws were barely holding in the fiberglass so even resealing it is only going to last a little while. The cover for it is just a black piece of plexi with 6 screws holding it in. Is there a better solution for this? I can expoxy in the holes and redrill them but it just seems really poorly designed. Especially given that you can get to that space from the berth that is right under it and the headliner has an 8 foot zipper that lets you pretty much crawl right up in there. So its really kind of pointless. It does have the bracket and power connector for the autopilot controller mounted to it which I am still trying to figure out why they did not mount the controller on the pedestal someplace so you don't have to trip over the cord that runs to the motor(st3000 autopilot).

So any suggestions for the windows and inspection window?


You'll have to re-bed the chainplates - it is about a half day job. Make sure that when you remove the shrouds that they are secured to a line led to winch to help assist the mast from not bending to the opposite side (trust me you have to do this).

The window issue you have. Take out the window - trace it out on cardboard or paper and get some Lexan cut from the template you would of created.

Easy stuff... to find someone that sells Lexan in your area - google composites and your area... Most that sell composite material sell lexan...

sailingdog 03-18-2009 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huguley3 (Post 463689)
I had some excitement this morning when I got up and found several leaks from the first real rainstorm since I got here in January.

Leak one looks like it is coming through a shroud chainplate. Comes through at a pretty good clip. Their was some really sad looking cracked up grey putty around the chainplate on the deck. The surveyor recomended removing them and inspecting them so its possible that I was thinking I would fix it then and not worry about it. In any case I scraped off the sad putty and smeared it with silicone for now. There is rain forecast for the next couple of days so I can't do anything with it right now and will just have to hope the silicone holds up. Until I get them pulled out and let the wood dry and pack it with butyl.

Bad idea... getting the silicone off the boat will be close to impossible, and it may make it so that other sealants won't stick properly. SILICONE has very little use on a boat.

Quote:

Leak 2 is a window in the main area. My boat has those large non-openable type of windows. I think I found the issue and gave it the same silicone treatment as the chainplate. My issue here is that I am not sure how to go about fixing the window. It looks like it has been taken out once and the plastic did not quite go back together properly. Its kind of wavy and there are gaps(hence the leak I think) where the edges meet. I did some quick googleing for some kind of replacement but did not find much except for portholes. I guess I am wondering if anyone has dealt with replacing those large static windows? it would look kind of funny if I 3 ports on each side but I find I keep the curtains close all the time anyway so its not like the big windows are an asset especially in the sun.
Replacing them isn't all that difficult. Getting a sheet of plexiglass or lexan and cutting replacements is the hardest part... bedding them is pretty simple and they can often be bedded using butyl tape, which you can get at most glass repair shops. Drill the fastener holes slightly oversized to allow for expansion and contraction, and counter sink the holes to prevent them from becoming a starting point for stress cracks.

Quote:

Leak 3 seemed to be coming from the starboard inspection hatch in the cockpit. I took it off and I can see why it was leaking. The screws were barely holding in the fiberglass so even resealing it is only going to last a little while. The cover for it is just a black piece of plexi with 6 screws holding it in. Is there a better solution for this? I can expoxy in the holes and redrill them but it just seems really poorly designed. Especially given that you can get to that space from the berth that is right under it and the headliner has an 8 foot zipper that lets you pretty much crawl right up in there. So its really kind of pointless. It does have the bracket and power connector for the autopilot controller mounted to it which I am still trying to figure out why they did not mount the controller on the pedestal someplace so you don't have to trip over the cord that runs to the motor(st3000 autopilot).

So any suggestions for the windows and inspection window?
Why not re-bed the inspection hatch and through bolt it instead of using screws. Through bolting it is far more secure and far stronger. Fiberglass is a lousy material for screws to hold in. It is too brittle and cracks way too easily. Another option is to epoxy t-nuts to the back side of the fiberglass and then use machine screws into the t-nuts. That would allow you to easily remove the cover, since the "nuts" would be permanently affixed.

huguley3 03-18-2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog (Post 463701)
Bad idea... getting the silicone off the boat will be close to impossible, and it may make it so that other sealants won't stick properly. SILICONE has very little use on a boat.

Hrrm. Well too late now. If I have big trouble with it I will remember that lesson next time something is leaking. I tried to keep it pretty contained but I had to do something and I had silicone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog (Post 463701)
Replacing them isn't all that difficult. Getting a sheet of plexiglass or lexan and cutting replacements is the hardest part... bedding them is pretty simple and they can often be bedded using butyl tape, which you can get at most glass repair shops. Drill the fastener holes slightly oversized to allow for expansion and contraction, and counter sink the holes to prevent them from becoming a starting point for stress cracks.

its not really the plexi or whatever material is in there that is leaking. it is the frame that is around it. The other windows are ok but the plexi has a lot of small cracks that are unsightly but they are sound. The window with the problem has been replaced because it does not have the crazing or the tint that the other windows do. Here are some pics of what I think the problem is:
From the inside. The silicone was already there so someone tried to fix it before. Why they thought putting it on the inside was a good idea I dunno...
http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/p...l/IMG_2803.jpg
On the outside.
http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/p...l/IMG_2804.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog (Post 463701)
Why not re-bed the inspection hatch and through bolt it instead of using screws. Through bolting it is far more secure and far stronger. Fiberglass is a lousy material for screws to hold in. It is too brittle and cracks way too easily. Another option is to epoxy t-nuts to the back side of the fiberglass and then use machine screws into the t-nuts. That would allow you to easily remove the cover, since the "nuts" would be permanently affixed.

Now that is a very sensible idea. As soon as the rain is done I think I will get on that. What should it be sealed with if silicone is off the table? Some kind of rubber gasket? I really don't like the silicone because you can't take the thing off without a lot of work cleaning up the old only to put more on. It was already sealed with silicone so I spent about an hour scraping that off only to find the screws would not really hold it properly. Add that to the lessons learned stack.

sailingdog 03-18-2009 10:04 PM

Butyl tape is great stuff for sealing and bedding deck hardware. If the port has to open, and the plexiglass is part of the section that has to be removed, then use a neoprene gasket instead, as it is a lot less messy to open and close repeatedly.

As for the ports, I"d like to see a photo of the exterior before commenting. :)

KeelHaulin 03-19-2009 12:17 AM

To me, it looks like someone tried to replace the window inside the plastic frame. Since the other windows are crazed and this one is not; it also seems plausible. So what they did was cut the plastic frame off of the old window; install new lexan and then tried to re-bond the lexan to the old frame with silicone. The gap you see is where they cut the frame be able to remove the lexan.

These windows with a plastic surround are usually made at a factory that injection molds the frame material around the lexan; so that it seals perfectly around the window and there are no seams. It's not just a simple matter of slapping in a new piece of lexan when the plastic crazes.

Your best bet for getting it repaired properly is to buy a new portlight from a company that makes them like Mark Plastics in Corona, CA. (IIRC)

huguley3 03-19-2009 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeelHaulin (Post 463809)
To me, it looks like someone tried to replace the window inside the plastic frame. Since the other windows are crazed and this one is not; it also seems plausible. So what they did was cut the plastic frame off of the old window; install new lexan and then tried to re-bond the lexan to the old frame with silicone. The gap you see is where they cut the frame be able to remove the lexan.

Your best bet for getting it repaired properly is to buy a new portlight from a company that makes them like Mark Plastics in Corona, CA. (IIRC)

I was thinking that too but there are the same seams on the other windows. On the other windows it looks like they are glued with super glue or something like that. So I would guess that seam broke when they took it apart. Maybe the new plexi was a little bit too big to fit in the frame so they left a gap. the other gaps are really tight so that would be my guess.

I saw the mark a plastics on another site where a guy used them to replace the windows on his islander.
One problem I have with doing that is that I really don't like the windows. :) They don't seem that well made and seemed to be attached in kind of a sloppy way. I guess they have lasted 25 years so they are not too cheaply made but they look it.

Islander30Bahama 03-19-2009 04:23 PM

Buying windows from Marks Plastics is gonna run you about a 1000.00 bucks for your Islander. I have a great plastics guy here and am going to have him cut new windows for me out of some 1/4 plexiglass. he reccomended that I use Plexi instead of Lexan as it will not scratch as bad. If I remember right you just bought this boat correct? Does it have the vinyl headliner around the windows? If it does while the windows are out look at the plywood behind the headliner and make sure it isnt dry rotted. In my bahama 30 I have taken out the entire headliner and going to put up some teak plywoodalong the main cabin where the windows are and an easily removable headliner to be able to access deck hardware. If you want any pictures of what stuff in your bahama looks like while it is taken apart let me know.

Jeff

huguley3 03-19-2009 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander30Bahama (Post 464082)
Buying windows from Marks Plastics is gonna run you about a 1000.00 bucks for your Islander. I have a great plastics guy here and am going to have him cut new windows for me out of some 1/4 plexiglass. he reccomended that I use Plexi instead of Lexan as it will not scratch as bad. If I remember right you just bought this boat correct? Does it have the vinyl headliner around the windows? If it does while the windows are out look at the plywood behind the headliner and make sure it isnt dry rotted. In my bahama 30 I have taken out the entire headliner and going to put up some teak plywoodalong the main cabin where the windows are and an easily removable headliner to be able to access deck hardware. If you want any pictures of what stuff in your bahama looks like while it is taken apart let me know.
Jeff

Yep just got the boat and this is the first real rain so that is why I am just finding it. Luckily I did not go with my initial plan and replace the cushions right away that would have seriously annoyed me.

Yep mine has the vinyl all over the place. A lot of the staples have been removed as they have rusted and stained the vinyl where they were. I like the headliner in certain places but it is a pretty bad covering in other spots. I have been trying to come up with a way to clean it up and make it look better but am not having much luck coming up with anything better. If you have any ideas I would gladly listen. :) I have been thinking of putting shelving under the window there but every time I start thinking about it the project snowballs and I get cold feet. My mom is pretty handy with ugly problems I will have to see if she has any ideas.

Pictures of what to expect are always welcome. I have been trying to take lots of pictures of things when I have them apart for future reference and in case anyone else wants to know. I just got a video of what it looks like when you take the knotmeter plug out to replace the paddlewheel on it. That was pretty exciting. Sadly I was not paying attention to which way it came out so now I think it is not quite straight so I have to figure out which way its supposed to go.

I was figuring windows would be around $300 each for the plastic ones. I think the post I saw was from 06 and he said he paid $260 or so. I don't want to spend the money on it but it just seems silly to me to try and fix that one window as its already been messed with for some reason. So I could get it apart and find it won't go back together any better than it already is. I can't imagine having new windows in your boat is one of the most satisfying things to get. But having them leak is pretty uspetting. :) Replacing both the starboard ones would at least keep the appearance the same and save me a bit short term.

Islander30Bahama 03-19-2009 05:58 PM

The head liner I am building will be a couple of removable panels in the main overhaed. I will build the same style to cover the underside of the deck by the settees. I should be starting on it here in the next few weeks after I replace the bulkheads I have taken out. The PO used different colored stains or teak oil in the cabin so I am stripping everything and going to varnish with an epifannes satin.
Along the hull I have seen some bahama 30s with teak slats that looked really nice. Shouldn't be to hard to clean paint install carpet then the slats over the carpet.
The windows I am going to install wont have that dumb molding ring. When my plastic guy cuts my new windows I am going to have him cut them an inch bigger all the way around. This is going to make rebedding way easier down the road like SD suggested. The countersunk machine screws will be every couple inches and should give the boat a more modern look. When I talked to Mark at Marks Plastics he quoted me around 225 per window a couple months ago.

Jeff


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