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post #11 of 22 Old 04-10-2009
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Only difference is at least the StreamStay used epoxy...

I forgot about those Peugeots. One of my friends had one of those frames I think... His frame failed due to the laminate shearing along a scratch that was gotten in a small crash... before the tubes could work free.
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Originally Posted by tommays View Post
They were thinking the same thing that all the people glueing carbon tubes into bike frames were at the time

Or Peugeot with the Pechiney frames that fell apart

""The frames tubes, seat, top, down and all 4 stays were joined to the lugs without a bonding agent or without welds. Peugeot called it the 'Pechiney' process. Quote form the catalogue "The assembly of the frame is performed with a special, patented technique that fits the tubes into the lugs without the use of any bonding process such as welding or glue."



Which is to say they were NOT thinking

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-10-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Relying on an adhesive for something that is cycling under tension isn't all that great a design idea... what exactly were they thinking???
I don't think they were.. Here is the top swivel. In defense of Hyde, which is no longer in business, wonder why, this furler sailed over 30k nautical miles.

For my comfort level that's about 29,998 miles too far..


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post #13 of 22 Old 04-10-2009
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Just cause it made it over 30K miles....doesn't necessarily mean that it should have been used for 30K miles or 3 for that matter.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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post #14 of 22 Old 04-11-2009 Thread Starter
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I'm just happy the thing happened while I was on my way to have the boat hauled and have a rigger inspect everything....anyway as an update have decided on replacing everything - all standing rigging along with a new Furlex is on order and should be on end of next week or the week after.

A big chunk of change but at least I will some peace of mind...

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post #15 of 22 Old 04-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celenoglu View Post
Head stay failures are the most common ones. The general point is from the top of the mast. This is due to furlers. Te oscilation of the furler causes premature breaking of the head stay. changing only the head stay in this condition is enough. The other stays are generally safe to use.
I am assuming that you are thinking of failures that occur because a toggle wasn't used at the top of the headstay. Something that every furling system manufacturer strongly recommends as far as I know.
Even a headstay without a furler should incorporate a toggle at both ends.

A furler, properly installed will not cause a headstay to prematurely fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
The Hyde furlers did not use a head stay. The stainless swivels were basically glued/epoxied/bonded onto a solid aluminum extrusion that acted as the head stay. Some of these Hyde's had the swivels come unglued from the extrusion.
You neglect to mention that there is a stainless collar that is swaged onto the aluminum extrusion before the fitting is filled with epoxy.
I have never seen a failure of this installation. And I've rebuilt and replace dozens of them.
The Hyde Stream Stay systems are somewhat prone to bearing failure. But it is a gross mis-characterization to say that the systems fail because of the terminals.
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post #16 of 22 Old 04-11-2009
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Originally Posted by knothead View Post



You neglect to mention that there is a stainless collar that is swaged onto the aluminum extrusion before the fitting is filled with epoxy.
I have never seen a failure of this installation. And I've rebuilt and replace dozens of them.
The Hyde Stream Stay systems are somewhat prone to bearing failure. But it is a gross mis-characterization to say that the systems fail because of the terminals.

Yes a STAINLESS swage on ALUMINUM. When I bought this boat the first thing I did was call my rigger. He had a box of failed rigging parts and in this box was about 10" of the aluminum Hyde extrusion and the failed top swivel. There was lots of corrosion up in there that probably helped lead to the failure. Having seen it first hand it helped make my decision to spend 2K on a new furler easier.

I don't know to many vessels that use aluminum as a rigging wire/medium but Hyde did and they mixed it with stainless which we all know can lead to disimilar metal corrosion. I suspect, from seeing this piece, that the epoxy pour is what failed and lead to the internal corrosion.

I don't doubt you may have never seen a failure but apparently they did and could occur with the Hyde system. This is why I used the word "some" not "all" or "many" or "lots" because I couldn't assume I was looking at the only Hyde failure in that box. Who knows, perhaps I was...?

Either way my boat has all new standing rigging and a new furler properly installed and I have much more comfort in knowing that especially with the picture of the Hyde parts still in my head.

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 04-11-2009 at 07:30 PM.
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post #17 of 22 Old 04-11-2009
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Nk..I am sorry for you trouble and damage, but you really didn't lose a rigginig..

you broke something....

losing a rig is bad...but different from what you experienced
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post #18 of 22 Old 04-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Yes a STAINLESS swage on ALUMINUM. When I bought this boat the first thing I did was call my rigger. He had a box of failed rigging parts and in this box was about 10" of the aluminum Hyde extrusion and the failed top swivel. There was lots of corrosion up in there that probably helped lead to the failure. Having seen it first hand it helped make my decision to spend 2K on a new furler easier.

I don't know to many vessels that use aluminum as a rigging wire/medium but Hyde did and they mixed it with stainless which we all know can lead to disimilar metal corrosion. I suspect, from seeing this piece, that the epoxy pour is what failed and lead to the internal corrosion.

I don't doubt you may have never seen a failure but apparently they did and could occur with the Hyde system. This is why I used the word "some" not "all" or "many" or "lots" because I couldn't assume I was looking at the only Hyde failure in that box. Who knows, perhaps I was...?

Either way my boat has all new standing rigging and a new furler properly installed and I have much more comfort in knowing that especially with the picture of the Hyde parts still in my head.
Hey, I'm not gonna claim that the Stream Stay was the cat's meow. I'm just saying that the fact that it's swaged, and not simply relying on epoxy to hold it together is a rather important point to omit. No?

The fact is, there are many of these systems still in use today. Some 30 years after they quit making them. That speaks pretty well for their longevity.
There are failures in all equipment sometimes. Tested, proven and trusted parts fails sometimes. Whether because of a mistake in production or installation, who knows? Stuff happens.
Some Camry's are lemons. But that doesn't mean that they aren't a good car.

That's all I'm saying.

I have a Stream Stay to rebuild sitting in the yard now. Sure wish I could talk the owner into a new furler. Rebuilding those old things is a greasy PITA.
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post #19 of 22 Old 04-11-2009
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Nk,
Congrats on noticing this problem before it escalated into losing the mast etc.
We got a new Furlex unit and new head sail from the Doyle loft in Huntington about 5 years ago that we are quite happy with and they did the rigging (if you are on the LI side of the Sound).
Replacing all the stays/shrouds will give you peace of mind and make some rigger like Knothead busy and happy.

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post #20 of 22 Old 04-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
Nk,
Congrats on noticing this problem before it escalated into losing the mast etc.
We got a new Furlex unit and new head sail from the Doyle loft in Huntington about 5 years ago that we are quite happy with and they did the rigging (if you are on the LI side of the Sound).
Replacing all the stays/shrouds will give you peace of mind and make some rigger like Knothead busy and happy.

Amen to that.
Keep me busy and I don't have the energy to run off at the mouth (fingers) nearly as much.
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