Beneteau vs. Yanmar – Green vs. Red Cooling Fluid - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 38 Old 04-11-2009
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2000, when we bought the boat. We bought the boat from Great Hudson sailing. They have a rigger/mechanic/know every thing guy on staff. His name is Bill and we have been happy all of our dealings with them.

I am posting a link to another sailing board that has the same discussion going on. Please read post #3.
Red / Green cooling liquid - Anything Sailing Forums


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post #12 of 38 Old 04-11-2009 Thread Starter
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2000, when we bought the boat. We bought the boat from Great Hudson sailing. They have a rigger/mechanic/know every thing guy on staff. His name is Bill and we have been happy all of our dealings with them.

I am posting a link to another sailing board that has the same discussion going on. Please read post #3.
Red / Green cooling liquid - Anything Sailing Forums
Bubb2,
Great link. Post 3 is good. Someone that isn’t as junior here as I may dare to do some copy and paste. However; the link doesn’t speak so much to if green is bad for the engine. Just that Red and (now orange ) is quite good if you have aluminum within the block. I’d still like more undisputable evidence about what to use with a Yanmar engine. Does green make it corrode?
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post #13 of 38 Old 04-11-2009
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I am no mechanic I done what I could. I would say that the owner"s manual would be last word on the subject.


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post #14 of 38 Old 04-11-2009 Thread Starter
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I am no mechanic I done what I could. I would say that the owner"s manual would be last word on the subject.
Yes and I thank you. The problem I have is that the manual (Yanmar) states red. The boat was filled up with green. The information I currently have from Beneteau suggests that green is OK. Combine this with the fact that the warranty is void according to Yanmar if you are using green and you see my dilemma.
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post #15 of 38 Old 04-11-2009
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I see the dilemma, but Beneteau is not going to warrant the engine and Beneteau did not build the engine. Who are they to tell you what is OK to use in the engine. If Yanmar is not going to warrant the engine do to the actions (get it in writing) of Beneteau, then I would ask Beneteau to put in a Engine That Yanmar will warrant. Have you spoken to Beneteau USA I mean the factory and just not the dealer?


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post #16 of 38 Old 04-11-2009 Thread Starter
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I see the dilemma, but Beneteau is not going to warrant the engine and Beneteau did not build the engine. Who are they to tell you what is OK to use in the engine. If Yanmar is not going to warrant the engine do to the actions (get it in writing) of Beneteau, then I would ask Beneteau to put in a Engine That Yanmar will warrant. Have you spoken to Beneteau USA I mean the factory and just not the dealer?
Well we are getting close to the core of the problem. First off I need to know if it is my dealership that have used a cooling fluid that voids the Yanmar warranty or if it is Beneteau. In the former case the only potential dispute is btw me and the dealership about payments for the flush and change to red cooling fluid.
In the latter case however, If Beneteau have decided that it’s worth it for them to fill up green in all their engines and then step in and negotiate with Yanmar should there be warranty issues it’s a different matter. After all Beneteau is a big boat builder. In this case I’m probably on my own in terms of the cost for getting my engine back into “proper” warranty with red cooling fluid.
I have a verbal statement from Beneteau US that Green is fine. I have a so far unanswered email into Beneteau US about the issue. I have a written statement from Yanmar that green voids the warranty. I hope to have more information after Easter.
So; It would obviously be great for me to learn if there are other Bennes out there with green cooling fluid.
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If you google Dex-Cool, you'll see that Dex-Cool has a series of class action lawsuits against them or involving them and a host of serious problems that are allegedly caused by the coolant.

IIRC, Maine Sail is flushing his engine's cooling system and switching back to regular coolant as part of the well-documented engine re-build he has posted about on the various sailing forums.

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post #18 of 38 Old 04-11-2009
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Relying on anti-freeze colour alone to determine it's properties is tricky. READ THE LABELS. OAT "long-life" anti-freeze (Dex-cool, for example) reacts with green anti-freeze, and depending upon which source you believe, will either cause a sludging effect or simply shorten the longevity (the manufacturers' opinion).

Here's a good chart with a breakdown of what is in what:

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf
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I heard Muti-hull guys use green in the starboard engine and red in port engine.


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post #20 of 38 Old 04-11-2009
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Relying on anti-freeze colour alone to determine it's properties is tricky. READ THE LABELS. OAT "long-life" anti-freeze (Dex-cool, for example) reacts with green anti-freeze, and depending upon which source you believe, will either cause a sludging effect or simply shorten the longevity (the manufacturers' opinion).

Here's a good chart with a breakdown of what is in what:

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf
As BLjones stated - and he is dead-on - color doesn't tell us anything anymore. We need to know what the underlying chemistry is. A spec sheet will give clues. An MSDS will give clues. I make a part of my living developing engine coolant formulation - have for the past 15 years. Most are fine and seldom is the coolant the real cause. Really serious problems generally have their roots in 1 of 3 places:
* Electrolysis. A wire somewhere it shouldn't be, a loose ground. Standard boat stuff. Remember, coolant is an electrolyte, and when circulating it loves to set up a current, just like a moving wire.
* Exhaust leak. If exhaust is getting into the cooling passages, no coolant can handle the oxygen load. All will start rusting violently.
* Old-school high pH coolant where there is aluminum. Bad. Often old truck AFs fell in this area.

Sailingdog is correct about Dex-cool. Actually, it was a good formulation, as far as their testing went, but it is quite incompatible with even small amounts of dirt or other coolants... which makes it a poor formulation of course. They should have tested these scenarios, but they relied on pure lab data and "clean" test fleets. No real-word testing. I remember an experience with dirt early in the "long-life" development process in my lab; we had a new ingredient that was just great in every way and cheap too. On one set of trials I used some old dirty test coupons, just to see how it worked on existing surfaces rather than perfect lab samples. Total failure. The additive treated the dirt and the metal got holes. You have to test in the real world.

It is not just about Yanmar specs either; the whole design, including heat exchanger and pump, are critical. But often the boat installers are not savvy in this area. They just don't know.

The best bet these days, unless you are sure it has always had one type of factory fill, is one of the "hybrid" types that claim to mix with anything. I do not intend to name names, but the larger brands have tested many combination by now, and they are formulated to be flexible.

The real exception to this generality is a large heavy-duty diesel with wet-sleave liners (not Yanmar - truck engines and the like). These engines have special needs and are well served by heavy duty NOAT products by Penray, Fleet Guard and others.

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