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post #21 of 30 Old 04-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk View Post
Putting the mainsheet through a clutch makes it easy for the line to snag - - and therefore STOP -- just when you don't want it to.
how so? If the line is matched properly with the clutch, it induces no more snags than a deck organizer.

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post #22 of 30 Old 04-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
how so? If the line is matched properly with the clutch, it induces no more snags than a deck organizer.
A single hockle (kink) in the line will jam it up.
I would never advise someone to use a rope clutch for a mainsheet.

The OP has a very workable situation just the way it is. With the proper number of turns around the winch, there is virtually no load on the cleat. A single turn around the cleat counter clockwise will pinch the line and hold it just fine.
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post #23 of 30 Old 04-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
A single hockle (kink) in the line will jam it up.
I would never advise someone to use a rope clutch for a mainsheet.
....
Kh, I gotta agree with you 100%, using a clutch or stopper on any sheet is a bad idea, using one on a mainsheet is asking for a T bone accident down the road. There's been many a time when, to duck a starboard tack boat, only the full release of the main will allow the boat to turn down, regardless of how far over the wheel/tiller is...and dumping the traveller may not do the job. Having a mainsheet configuration where the released sheet may not run free, cleanly and immediately, 100% of the time, would be looking for real trouble.

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post #24 of 30 Old 04-29-2009
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Main sheet Cam Cleat! You need to be able to do a quick release and the clutch does not give that freedom.
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post #25 of 30 Old 04-29-2009 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Huguley,
What type of headliner do you have? I've had to redo the one in my boat, many ways to fix it, any options etc.

look here for what and how I did the aft state room, and there is a link to how I did the head. The aft state room shows of mixture of what I did. It might give you some idea's of how to "FIX" your issue vs just "fix"ing the issue.

Staples do not work going into fiberglass!

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My headliner is vinyl tacked up with some really rotten plywood. I did not know how rotten it was so I guess it is kind of a good thing that I got a look at it. It would not have been quite so hard to fix except the zipper that is on that side is missing its whatever that thing that zips and unzips a zipper is called. I managed to get the liner back up with some of the original rusted up tacks that were still in the wood and a few upholstery tacks. After my experience with the PO putting screws into fiberglass I had a pretty good idea that nails or staples would not hold up too well. I am hoping to redo a lot of the boat including the V with thin veneered plywood. I am working on figuring out how I can do that with panels that I can take off so I have the same access that the zippers in the vinyl had. Kind of a tall order when you figure in you don't want it falling down while under way. I will come up with something eventually. I like the white vinyl that you have in yours it looks much better than the putty color I have. I am worried if I do a teak veneer the boat will be too dark but a lighter wood would not match the rest.

Thanks for the info on the clutch vs cleat everyone. I thought it was pretty straight that a horn cleat was a bad idea. I will have to try the suggestion that a single wrap and tuck after the winch to see if I am comfortable with how it holds. Maybe I can knock something off the list.

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post #26 of 30 Old 04-29-2009
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I've been saying this since the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
Kh, I gotta agree with you 100%, using a clutch or stopper on any sheet is a bad idea, using one on a mainsheet is asking for a T bone accident down the road. There's been many a time when, to duck a starboard tack boat, only the full release of the main will allow the boat to turn down, regardless of how far over the wheel/tiller is...and dumping the traveller may not do the job. Having a mainsheet configuration where the released sheet may not run free, cleanly and immediately, 100% of the time, would be looking for real trouble.

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post #27 of 30 Old 04-29-2009
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On your Vberth, do you have any flat area's? if so, then you could do like I did in the flat area's that were foam back vinyl, I used a thin plywood veneer I got at Home Depot, ie door paneling, took some heavy brown wrapping paper. made as best as I could template, put it on the ply wood and cut about 1/4" out in my garage, then went to the boat with sabre saw, belt sander and proceeded to fit the plywood. Then came home and put the vinyl on the board with overlap to the back side about an inch, then stapled from the back, along with using contact cement on the living side. I have a balsa cored deck or some such thing for the most part, so I held the panels up with 1" screws and a cap on the screw I got at WM.

Both area's had a few more panels than I started with, the aft wall of the stateroom was vinyl, but I use the door paneling and varnished it. I've seen other models like mine with wood on that wall too.
The panels make it easier to get to thru deck bolts etc too.

If you want to talk some more off line here, pm me. I can get you pics of what I did to the v-berth too. I did not take too many before and after shots as that was the first thing I did, then did the aft room, head and finished with the main salon.

Then where you have the horn cleat, look at what I had, ie the horn styl jam cleat. Those work well too. I prefer them over the actual horn cleat or a clutch.

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post #28 of 30 Old 04-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huguley3 View Post
I will have to try the suggestion that a single wrap and tuck after the winch to see if I am comfortable with how it holds. Maybe I can knock something off the list.





I wouldn't ask you to watch the entire video, but take a look at the section between the 5:30 and the 5:45 marks (the time stamp on the video is 4:23:16) to get an idea of what I'm talking about.
I was easing the sheet with one hand while holding the camera with the other.
My Genoa sheet is set up in very much the same way as your mainsheet. I've been using it that way for many years and it's never failed me yet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
I've been saying this since the beginning.
Yes you have SD. I was trying to reinforce your point.

Sometimes good advice bears repeating. As you are well aware.
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post #29 of 30 Old 04-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
A single hockle (kink) in the line will jam it up.
I would never advise someone to use a rope clutch for a mainsheet.

The OP has a very workable situation just the way it is. With the proper number of turns around the winch, there is virtually no load on the cleat. A single turn around the cleat counter clockwise will pinch the line and hold it just fine.

I understand, but the person I quoted insinuated that a clutch would be more prone to jamming. ANY fairlead will jam with a hockle in the line. I'm with you guys, no clutches on any sheet. Personally, I'd set it up like a j24 jib sheet. Mount a cam cleat to the back of the bulkhead (vertical) and put the tail in that. Doesn't get much faster. My other post was giving advice on how to move things to accommodate a clutch on a mainsheet, not condoning the use of one.

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post #30 of 30 Old 04-30-2009
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One thing I

One thing I did not see mentioned is the "hand" of the line. Main sheets are more often sized for comfortable "hand" than for the actual load on smaller boats. A 3/8" sheet on a 30 footer will kill your hands, especially if you are a sail tweaker...

I'd personally go with a min of 1/2" for the comfort factor not the load. If you're not racing or are just a "set it and forget it" sailor then smaller line will be ok too..

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