At what point is enough enough? - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 05-17-2009 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jarcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Smithfield, RI
Posts: 1,008
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
At what point is enough enough?

So I bought a 32 year old boat last September and made big plans for it, with the biggest single expenses being replace the moldy cushions ($2,000), soda blast and apply a barrier and new paint ($1,900), replace much of the running rigging and upgrade the electronics.

But now I find this rot in the foredeck that has completely shaken my confidence in the survey that was performed and in the boat itself. I realize that this one section can be fixed but I'm worried that there is more and other problems not yet detected.

I have put the soda blasting on hold and can probably cancel the cushions, although I think the fabric is ordered.

The electronics can come with me to the next boat, but other than that, it looks like this boat either has or will have no value. I was hoping to keep it for the next 8 seasons and look at a new boat then, but if the cost of maintenance is going to exceed the cost of the payments, I am probably just wasting money.

At what point do we just pack it in?

Last edited by jarcher; 05-17-2009 at 11:37 AM.
jarcher is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Big Chicken Baby
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 410
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
I think the answer lies in the reason you chose this boat. Is this the perfect boat for you for the next ten years? Did you purchase it because you LOVE this boat? The way it sails, the lay out, etc? If so, it might make sense to spend the money to save her and sail the pants off of her for the next ten years, then sell her to someone who can appreciate the love and attention you have lavished on her. Even if you were to buy a brand new boat, you will still have expenses for maintenence, outfitting etc.

On the other hand, if you bought this boat because the price was right but you don't really love anything else about it, then you will never be happy with the end product no matter how much or how little you spend.

No one can give you a definitive answer because a boat is always a silly financial investment. You will never get your money out of a boat. What you do have to look for is a way to get maximum joy for your investment.

Last edited by Mimsy; 05-17-2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason: appalling typos...
Mimsy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Sea Slacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
doesn't sound like it's been all that expensive.

I bought a boat that is now 37 years old. I usually estimate that for any boat I would spend the same amount I paid for her in improvements in the next few years. In this case I was off by a factor of 2 I spent twice what I paid for her so far (and I paid quite a bit for a boat too, it wasn't one of those junkyard cheapo deals).

It's got to be something you enjoy doing and don't feel bad about paying for. I do not - it's something I like and I like spending money on my boat. If you do not - then it's pretty much a given that any amount spent will make you unhappy.

Buying any boat is rarely a good financial decision. Buying an old boat is *never* a good "financial decision".
brak is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,604
Thanks: 1
Thanked 53 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
When you buy a 32 year old boat, the first question you have to ask yourself is...

do you really enjoy messing about in boats? Fixing thing. Figuring things out for yourself. Being a sailor is as much understanding the boat and repairing the boat as it is understanding sailing.

I had a 30-year old boat, sold it in much better shape than I bought it, but really didn't spend much. But did learn the boat inside and out.

Not to save money, though, if the above is true and you are, or can be come good a the above crafts. It should be to enjoy the process. If you are going to pay others, perhaps the battle is lost.

Really, the surveyor should not have missed the deck issue. That is what you paid him for. Perhaps a second inspection of some manner is in order, just to get the major issues on paper.

Can you sew? Can the cushions be cleaned? Can you strip the bottom? Do you need to, or can you paint over it with minimal sanding? Most do. A hand-held GPS, depth sounder, and VHS are all you NEED, and the VHS is the only real need, since the others didn't exist 30 years ago in any practical sense. Sail repairs can be done by hand or at minimal cost.

And I am sorry for the rude awakening, but buying a 30-year old boat with payments was a misstep. New boats have payments and few repairs. Old boats have no payments and many repairs. You'll be OK. You just have a learning curve.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pdqaltair is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Senior Member
 
tommays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
I have seen some pretty big messes with NEW boats


Pretty much everybody i know has and older boat (many who could afford anything like the J44 guys) and unless its really horrific just deal with a bit at a time.

You can do a WHOLE lot of work for 1k+ a month new boat payment over 20 years

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tommays is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Irrationally Exuberant
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,333
Thanks: 9
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
As Mimsy says, Do you like the boat? Like sailing it, looking at it, etc? If so, I'd start at planning to keep it.

But if you don't trust the survey that was done (was this by a surveyor of your own choosing?), why not do a survey of your own at this point to help decide? Look thru Sailingdog's tips for inspection. Check some fittings other than the baby tang to see if they've had water intrusion. Do a complete plastic hammer tap test of the deck (and I can't believe you surveyor missed the 'thunk' that would have occured on your rot!). If the surveyor was yours, maybe you should give him/her a call and suggest that they owe you a good tap and moisture test of your deck, since they missed something so large.

I don't think the money we put in during ownership of a boat--including upgrades--makes the boat worth more necessarily, just worth more to us. The calculation of worth is all yours, but I'd get a new baseline on just what you have.

Tom K

2000 Beneteau 331
Northern Chesapeake Bay

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy ~ Steven Wright
arf145 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 20 Old 05-17-2009 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jarcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Smithfield, RI
Posts: 1,008
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
And I am sorry for the rude awakening, but buying a 30-year old boat with payments was a misstep. New boats have payments and few repairs. Old boats have no payments and many repairs. You'll be OK. You just have a learning curve.
Oh I didn't finance the purchase of this boat, I just paid $11,500 outright. I have no payments. I'm told its now worth $9,000 but right now is very different then even last September for boat values. If I spend another $10,000 on repairs now AND the boat does well for me for the next 8 seasons with minor repair and ordinary maintenance I'll be okay with that. Yes any boat is a bad financial move, but some must be worse than others.

My worry is what lies ahead. The suggestions that I get a better evaluation of the deck and probably the hull to make sense. Then at least I'll know what I am in for.

As for whether I love the boat, not really, but I don't hate it either. I thought I liked it when I bought it. I thought it was odd that the engine was in the middle of the cabin. The six weeks of sailing I got in last season convinced me that having it there really sucks, as its hard to squeeze by it and there is no leg room to sit and such. Then I learned that someone moved the engine from where it belongs to the middle of the cabin!
jarcher is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Just remember, that boat maintenance, as a rule when done properly, gets lower rather than higher. If you do the preventative and proper maintenance, the big costs generally are avoidable. Bringing a boat up to spec, after a long period of questionable maintenance takes some doing, regardless of what boat it is.

I would highly recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread I started, as it will help you get a real baseline on what is needed with your current boat.

If you like the way the boat performs, sails and looks... there's no reason not to go ahead an invest in the boat, provided she's basically sound to begin with.

Looking at a boat from a purely financial perspective is ridiculous...since any financial perspective is going to say that not owning one is the only thing that makes sense. They are a financial strain any way you look at them, even if brand new.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Senior Member
 
tommays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
"Then I learned that someone moved the engine from where it belongs to the middle of the cabin!"


A LOT of boats have the motor there even good ones like a Tartan 372 which is why we were now have a LOT of saildrives

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tommays is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 20 Old 05-17-2009
Sea Slacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
I know every person is different, and personal expenditures differ too. That said, 10K doesn't sound like that much money to me in terms of boat costs (relative to what many boats and boat repair jobs would cost).

That's not to say that you should just throw money away. However, I do think that if sums of this scale make you cringe - it will be difficult to deal with any boat, since sums like these come up pretty much all the time even if the boat is new and you are a DIY kinda person.

You know that boat is now, due to inflation, is renamed BOATT - bring out another ten thousand It is a joke, but it's only funny because it is true.

YMMV
brak is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FYI... Rose Point Navigation Coastal Explorer 2.0 (Maptech ChartNavPro) labatt Gear & Maintenance 3 02-08-2008 12:42 PM
Joyce Baker Shares a Special Shell Point Memory - Wakulla.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-07-2007 02:15 AM
the time is now. =) Buying to a price point. =( jbarros Boat Review and Purchase Forum 7 12-07-2003 02:16 PM
Point Conception under SAIL jbarros Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 0 09-29-2003 08:05 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome