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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #11  
Old 05-25-2009
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Fstbttms - Tributyl-Tin based paints were not outlawed in the US due to quantitative scientific measurement - they were outlawed due to environmental lobbying groups being successful in showing qualitative, anecdotal, non-labaratory based evidence of reduced growth of aquatic species in areas frequented by boats. Because of the higher levels of TBT found in these areas, it was pointed to as a possible reason for this lesser growth, and because many alternatives were available, the environmentalists were able to push through - very rapidly, I may add - legislation banning its use. The legislation was not because of potential harm to humans. Many studies show that you have to have significant concentrations of TBT for it to cause issues in humans, and the paint industry (yes, I know there is a conflict interest in this source) says that TBT will metabolize within 3 days.
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Last edited by labatt; 05-25-2009 at 06:16 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2009
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$29 a foot in the northwest, including paint.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labatt View Post
Fstbttms - Tributyl-Tin based paints were not outlawed in the US due to quantitative scientific measurement...
Blah, blah, blah. Just like global climate change is a myth, right? The stuff is banned WORLDWIDE regardless of your rationalization. Sailors should be part of the solution, not part of the problem, which is what you are if you knowingly use TBT-based anti fouling paints.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2009
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Global Warming is a myth....
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2009
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I don't know anything about tin paint and who or what it is bad for or even if it is. But, let's assume the paint job does last 5 years. Where will you be in 5 years? Can you over coat the tin paint with something else? If not, you'll need to strip it if you can't get it done again with tin paint.

I'm not an expert and there are people here who know more than I, but I have been reading quite a lot about bottom paint lately. You should be able to get several seasons out of a good paint like micron or one of the Pettit paints, with a little touch up each year. If you really need three gallons that's about $450 for the paint. A 40 foot boat would cost about $1,200 for the labor, so a total of $1,650.

It still seems like a better deal to get it here, but even if it costs a bit more, at least you won't have to worry about how to over coat it when it is ready. If you ever plan to sell the boat, it would not be right if the paint is illegal without at least disclosing that to the buyer.

So why look for hassles? Regardless of whether the tin paint is really bad for anything, it just seems like using it could bring on some problems in the future.

I can't resist one comment though. Like I said, I don't know anything about tin. But I do know that DDT was also banned worldwide, and that ban has caused many deaths in developing nations. The ban has killed many more people than it is claimed to have saved, and any evidence that people were saved by that ban is sketchy at best.
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Old 05-25-2009
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Thread hijack.

DDT was used to eradicate mosquitoes and diseases they can carry (malaria among others). There were un-intended consequences from using it that affected many types of birds making their egg shells brittle.
Since the ban on DDT (what year?) the Osprey, a few Eagle species and many other birds seem to be flourishing where they were not when I was a kid. Coincidence, conspiracy theory or cause and effect? You choose.

Those Bahamian bottom job estimates sound kind of pricey per foot. Heck, I would do it for you for $1200 if you pay for paint, sundry stuff and haul out.

Sorry to hear that you found the bottom but I guess that is fairly common in the Bahamas. Sounds as though you kept a level head and the Bahamian boat that helped pull you off saved your bacon (ask their skipper where he gets his bottom painted).
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Old 05-25-2009
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Yes, human poisons and marine poisons are differnt. We knew that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by labatt View Post
Fstbttms - Tributyl-Tin based paints were not outlawed in the US due to quantitative scientific measurement - they were outlawed due to environmental lobbying groups being successful in showing qualitative, anecdotal, non-labaratory based evidence of reduced growth of aquatic species in areas frequented by boats. Because of the higher levels of TBT found in these areas, it was pointed to as a possible reason for this lesser growth, and because many alternatives were available, the environmentalists were able to push through - very rapidly, I may add - legislation banning its use. The legislation was not because of potential harm to humans. Many studies show that you have to have significant concentrations of TBT for it to cause issues in humans, and the paint industry (yes, I know there is a conflict interest in this source) says that TBT will metabolize within 3 days.
People take zinc pills. 1 ppm will kill all of the fish. Antifreeze (ethylene glycol) is dangerous for mammals. It (ethylene or propylene) barely effects marine organisms. Arsenic is not too bad in a marine environment, but copper - well, it kills the barnacles well. Good thing the pipes in our houses aren't made of the stuff.

I think the fact the ban is international weakens the conspiracy theory approach, but who can say.

But to beat your chest that it is "good" paint? We already are a part of the problem with copper, and we know that if we are honest with ourselves.
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarcher View Post
I don't know anything about tin paint and who or what it is bad for or even if it is..
Tin based bottom paints were ban in Ca. in the mid 80's, the EPA banned it in the US around the late 80's, the internation community implemented a worldwide ban in 2002 with a total phase out by 2008.

Any Tin based paint found offshore is leftover shipyard paint which would make me suspect to quality of the product and from what I've read, unless all previous anti fouling coatings are removed, tin based paint will fail within a year,coming off in large quantities.
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Old 05-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopdeckpappy View Post
I did some checking around when I was pricing a paint job for ours, it came in around 43/ft using interlux something or other; I looked at envirosafe paints and came up with Seahawk Biocop TE, it has a non-metal base and it's guaranteed for 1 yr

With the ban on tin and copper prices continuing to rise, this still looks like a good route to take
Gee, for me that would be about $1,500 for only a one year guarantee.

I hear the best way to have the bottom done is to let the hull dry out for a day or two before applying the new paint, then waitng another couple days for the paint to cure...and to make sure two coats are done on the areas where the supports used to be. I wonder what the yard would charge for that down time, instead of doing everything in one day from haul out to splash?
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Old 05-26-2009
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I used TBTF paints when they were legal. I don't find that they worked any better than the top quality paints available today (at least in new England waters).
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