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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance
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  #1  
Old 06-02-2009
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How to install storm hood without leaks

So, I've read all the great articles and threads on bedding deck hardware to avoid getting water into the core material. However, I cannot figure out how to mount this storm hood using those techniques.

The hood mounts on the cabin of my Ranger 22. It's got 4 bolt holes on the corners. I imagine myself drilling those holes into the cabin top, pushing the bolts in and being unable to get access to the entry areas on the deck to seal them because the hood will then be covering those holes.

My current thought is to put a fender washer on a bolt, and push it up from the inside of the cabin. Then secure the bolt with another fender washer and nut on the top using epoxy and 5200 a la Don Casey to waterproof the holes. From there I could just attach the hood to those bolts with 4 more washers/nuts. The added benefit would be that if I ever need to add hardware to the storm hood, I could easily remove it without having to rebed the bolts.

This solution seems right to me, but I'm unsure since it seems so unconventional. Please help me see the error of my ways before I actually do this, or let me know if you think it should work.



Thanks!

David in Seattle
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Old 06-03-2009
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Say What?

I'm not sure if you're understanding exactly what you need to do to re bed these fasteners. A good place to start is the information from West Systems Epoxy. They put out some pamphlets and a book on repairs using their products. They're pretty cheap, have tons of good pictures, and are very explanatory. You can get them at WM or any other place that sells West Systems products. They work with most brands of epoxy, but I have found that West provides the best information. You might be able to find the information on their website, if not, they will let you know where you can find it.
As for the 5200, don't use it. if you, or the next owner, ever need to get the storm hood off, you won't be able to without destroying something. I would recommend 4200 instead. My marina neighbor and I were just talking last night about 5200, and we couldn't come up with one good thing on a boat to use it on.(Sounds like a new thread to me) It will hold anything, but if you ever want to get it off, good luck. Don't call me to help.
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Old 06-03-2009
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Here's the link Epoxy by the Leading Epoxy Manufacture | WEST SYSTEM Epoxy
The 91 page fiberglass repair manual is there under projects, and it's free.
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Old 06-03-2009
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Thanks for the link. I do have a hardcopy of that right here, but an e version is helpful as well. Still, I can't find an answer for this particular problem in that manual.

Let me try this again and see if I can state the problem more clearly. This storm hood had been removed by the previous owner when I bought the boat several years ago. He removed it because when it was installed, it leaked water into the cabin through the bolt holes. When you install it with bolts, there is space between the top of the cabin and the bottom of the storm hood. Because water can get under the storm hood, the bolt holes in the cabin top need to be water tight.

I understand the typical hardware bedding process: drill the holes bigger, fill with epoxy, redrill holes so water doesn't have access to core, bed hardware with adhesive/sealant and cleanup excess after snugging down hardware. The problem is, how do I bed these bolts to make them waterproof when I only have access to them from inside the cabin (I can't get to that space between the hood and the deck). That's why I thought of installing the bolts first from inside the cabin, securing them with washers/nuts using the typical procedure above, then securing the storm hood to the already installed and waterproofed bolts.

This is a weird problem and two very long posts, but I hope someone can wade through this and help. Thanks.
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Old 06-03-2009
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morte,

You're basically wanting to install studs instead of bolting the seahood in place. If you are going to go that route, just use epoxy and wax your top washer and nut inside and out. Once it is fully cured, you can remove the nut and washer.

But, it sounds like you are trying to avoid removing the seahood once you set it in place the first time. Hardware installation has a lot of steps and whatever is being bedded has to be set in place and moved several times unless you have a template which is probably a bad idea for your seahood.

Here is how I would handle this:
set the seahood in place
drill a hole, drop a bolt in it
drill a hole, drop a bolt in it
drill a hole, drop a bolt in it
drill a hole

Take the hood and bolts off and pot the holes using your favorite technique. Once that is complete, prep your bolts for reinsertion into the hood. I like butyl tape so here is how I would install it once all the prep is done.

Take a piece of butyl tape and roll it into a rod. Wrap that around the threads at the bolt heads. Insert the bolts into the sea hood and press them in so they stay in place. Take some more butyl tape and do the same where the bolts come out of the bottom of the sea hood. You now have your seahood sitting there with four bolts that aren't going to fall out on you.

Run butyl tape along the part of the seahood where you want the seahood sealed to the cabin top (you may be able to do this before putting the bolts in).

Carefully line the bolt holes up, set the seahood in place and go down below and put on your washers and nuts.

So, if you want to use a liquid type sealant, the steps are fairly similar. Once you have all your bolt holes prepped, you run a bead along where the joint will be on the sea hood. You run a bead around the bolt holes on the top and the bottom of the seahood. You insert your bolts, you drop the seahood in place and put your hardware on. Then you waste a roll of papertowels cleaning up the resultant squeeze out.
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Old 06-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morte100 View Post
So, I've read all the great articles and threads on bedding deck hardware to avoid getting water into the core material. However, I cannot figure out how to mount this storm hood using those techniques.

The hood mounts on the cabin of my Ranger 22. It's got 4 bolt holes on the corners. I imagine myself drilling those holes into the cabin top, pushing the bolts in and being unable to get access to the entry areas on the deck to seal them because the hood will then be covering those holes.

My current thought is to put a fender washer on a bolt, and push it up from the inside of the cabin. Then secure the bolt with another fender washer and nut on the top using epoxy and 5200 a la Don Casey to waterproof the holes. From there I could just attach the hood to those bolts with 4 more washers/nuts. The added benefit would be that if I ever need to add hardware to the storm hood, I could easily remove it without having to rebed the bolts.

This solution seems right to me, but I'm unsure since it seems so unconventional. Please help me see the error of my ways before I actually do this, or let me know if you think it should work.
Not a great idea. First of all, the bolts will likely rotate anytime you try tightening down nuts on them... that will break the seal
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Old 06-03-2009
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"(I can't get to that space between the hood and the deck). "
Ah, I'm missing something here. You've already got the hood off, don't you? So you CAN get to that space, can't you?
Is there a reason you can't temporarily install the sea hood (i.e. using bolts without any glues), drill the first set of holes through it, and then mark off pilot holes in the deck? Then remove the sea hood, drill and prep the holes in the deck, and reinstall everything in the final sequence?

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Old 06-04-2009
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What's the problem?

Just remove the hood and bolts

Put some butyl tape under the bolt head and push through a washer

Put butyl tape under the washer and push through the hood

Put butyl tape on the threads under the hood

Do all four bolts

Lower the hood to the deck

Add washers and nuts from below

Have some one hold the bolts from spining on the top while you tighten from below
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Old 06-04-2009
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Ok, ok. Maybe I'm making a bigger deal of this than it needs to be. I've just heard (read) the horror stories about delaminated decks from some insignificant piece of hardware that wasn't properly potted/sealed. Thanks for the reality check.
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Old 06-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morte100 View Post
Ok, ok. Maybe I'm making a bigger deal of this than it needs to be. I've just heard (read) the horror stories about delaminated decks from some insignificant piece of hardware that wasn't properly potted/sealed. Thanks for the reality check.
That's why you make the holes oversize, and fill with epoxy (if the coach top is cored). It seals the deck and isolates the core from the water if (when) a leak develops. Then.... when you see water on the bottom of the bolt (never seal the bottom!) you think "oh, time to re-bed". No harm, no foul, just another Saturday gone when you could have been sailing instead! I've often wondered how much it would have actually cost to do this when the boat was built. Even on producion boats, it doesn't seem like much compared to the grief core saturation can cause years later. But, hey, the boats shiny and new, lets go sailing!

Last edited by L124C; 06-04-2009 at 12:55 PM.
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