Dockline failure from snubber - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 25 Old 07-19-2009
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So could the same failure be expected of braided nylon line? That's what we have for our boat, and that's what most people around our sail club seem to be using. I don't often see three-strand in use. I also rarely see snubbers in use.

Jim
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-19-2009
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It's not a matter of 3-strand vs Braided. It's a matter of using dock lines vs running rigging. Lines appropriate for halyards and sheets should never be used for dock lines. Dock lines need to stretch, running rigging doesn't.

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post #13 of 25 Old 07-19-2009
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Fred, I'd also expect thta using halyard for dock lines would be problematic--with or without snubbers.

HOWEVER. If those guys really just sold the snubbers without even bothering to put in a note that says "For use with 3-strand manila dockline or braided nylon dockline only!"

I would still gently remind them that in this quaint corner of the world, even a hot dog manufacturer is responsible for expecting any reasonable use of his product. A frozen hot dog makes a lousy hammer...but if the package doesn't say "Don't do this!" you just know that someone IS going to do it.

Product will fail if the un-taught un-experienced user simply buys it and uses it in a likely manner? Yeah, they should be nice enough to replace your snubbers, and take the gentle hint about molding in a warning message on the new ones.

Before the next guy sues 'em for the loss of a Bertram, and wins it.
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-20-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Fred, I'd also expect thta using halyard for dock lines would be problematic--with or without snubbers.

HOWEVER. If those guys really just sold the snubbers without even bothering to put in a note that says "For use with 3-strand manila dockline or braided nylon dockline only!"

I would still gently remind them that in this quaint corner of the world, even a hot dog manufacturer is responsible for expecting any reasonable use of his product. A frozen hot dog makes a lousy hammer...but if the package doesn't say "Don't do this!" you just know that someone IS going to do it.

Product will fail if the un-taught un-experienced user simply buys it and uses it in a likely manner? Yeah, they should be nice enough to replace your snubbers, and take the gentle hint about molding in a warning message on the new ones.

Before the next guy sues 'em for the loss of a Bertram, and wins it.
Sure, why not let hammer manufacturers put a warning on their products stating not to insert fingers between the nail and the hammer.

What happened to good old common sence? Dont alsways blame (this seems to be a culture) someone else.
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-20-2009 Thread Starter
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Thanks all for your input. Seems that I am learning a hard lesson here about different types of line and their proper use. I was under the naive impression that most boat line was nylon but now know that polyproplene is used ( I assume for the low stretch apps). And I thought poly was just used on my ski boat tow lines! Doesn't poly degrade rather fast in sunlight? So the concensus is that my mistake was using poly vs nylon and not braid vs 3 strand? Is nylon line made for low stretch applications? Best, fred

PS: I still think the manufacturer should put a note in the literature to only use nylon dockline!
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-20-2009
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argofred...

There's lot more to lines than just nylon and polyproplene. Get a copy of West Marine's catalog and look at what they offer and the advice that they give. Polyproplene (in general except where you want a floating line such as a ski rope) is a horrible line for boats...little shock absorbing stretch and deteriorates extremely fast (i.e. looses its strength) when exposed to sunlight. There are two basic lines for boating today .. first is nylon for dock lines and anchor rodes...strong, elastic to absorb shock. Comes in several make ups with three strand or double braided mosty common. Both stretch, but double braid stetches less but stays more flexible so it's easier to handle. Either one works for dock lines. If you are in a rough spot, be sure to have extra lines of a suitable size. Working load of lines is normally about 15% of breaking strength. Chafe, not line strength is going to be your worry, so protect the line anywhere the line will rub on something or take a sharp turn around an object. Polyester has comparable strength to nylon but less stretch...there are lots of variations by manufacturers to get less stretch for halyards, so don't use these for dock lines (except in severe storm conditions as backups to nylon lines when you have no other lines ...and then use them slacker than the nylon lines. There are a whole range of new exotic new special application line types that have been developed for halyards and other applications where very high strength and very low stretch is desired....these lines are extremely expensive and usually of little concern for the average, non racing sailor. None are suitable for dock lines. Stay away from the cheap "poly" lines that are also sometimes labeled nylon that are sold in some non boating stores...most short cut the manufacturing steps needed for good line and often use significant amount of polyproplene....which looses strength in sunlight.

Last edited by NCC320; 07-20-2009 at 08:29 AM.
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-20-2009
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Most running rigging like Sta-Set is Polyester not Polypropylene.


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post #18 of 25 Old 07-20-2009 Thread Starter
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My mistake ............I meant polyester. I keep getting polypro and polyester terms mixed up. What a way to get a lesson in lines! Thanks all!
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post #19 of 25 Old 07-20-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
Sure, why not let hammer manufacturers put a warning on their products stating not to insert fingers between the nail and the hammer.
I agree, but this is an apples and oranges comparison. IMO.

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Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
What happened to good old common sence? Dont alsways blame (this seems to be a culture) someone else.
They're snubbers. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of snubbers to give elasticity to dock lines? If so: Is it really all that unreasonable for somebody to use them in just the way argofred did?

And would it really be all that much trouble for the manufacturer to put a little note in about recommended use?

Jim
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-20-2009
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Dock
As long as we are talking about lines, Argofred should also check his anchor line. It should be nylon also, or he may be in for a very unpleasant surprise.
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