Boatyard Discussion

[LarryandSusanMacDonald]

Many good points made.

You are no doubt correct when you say that the pro's don't get to see the amateur work that was done correctly. We just get to fix the one's that were trashed.

My apologies to all of you talented amateurs who know how to do the job correctly. If you're looking for employment...

[chucklesR]

No thanks Larry, who wants a job where you are underpaid, unappreciated and have to work on rainy, cold days outside , doing the best you can just be yelled at by some beer belly toting slob of a customer?

I perfer being over paid, ignored working from home doing not a damn thing but cruise on sailnet all day working for a state agency who doesn't really even understand what I do, then going to my boat to play 'marina worker' when it feels good and the rum is stocked up.

[SaltyGirl]

Originally Posted by halekai36

Oooh Audi.. That's a sore subject in our house! Perhaps the worst car I've ever owned, in the shop literally more than we drove it (A6 Avant Wagon), and the dealership and company stand behind nothing! ..

I love my A6, but I agree with the service part. I am just glad our boat doesn't have one of those "check engine" lights. It comes on about two days after I have the car serviced for anything. I am convinced it is a conspiracy to assure the Audi service departments get a constant stream of business. Its $88 just to check why the light is on. If I had that on my boat it would stay in the shop.

[sailortjk1]

Late to the thread and I didn't get a chance to read it all........
My 2 cents worth.

There are good yards and there are bad yards.

I have been at both and I am currently in one of the nicest full service marine facilities on the Great Lakes. That of course is an opinion.
If we need work done, I send and e-mail in on Monday and USUALLY its done by the next weekend.

In my area, there are plenty of yards to chose from. If you're not happy with the work of the yard and its proformance, find another yard. Usually there are plenty to choose from. In some remote areas this may not be the case, but for most, I would think that it would be the case.

I have been in bad yards. Try scheduling a launch in a bad yard. "Lets see we will maybe get you in some time next week, but I can't promise anything." Been there, done that, moved the boat the next season.

My current yard rarely gives estaimates. Repairs are done on T&M.
Not sure I like that, but than again, they never go over their estimates.

In my line of work, I don't have that luxury. I bid a job per plans and specs. If my estimates are off and missed something, I am screwed.

Im not sure how the yards can get away with giving a quote and not honoring that quote. That one puzzles me.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by LarryandSusanMacDonald

My apologies to all of you talented amateurs who know how to do the job correctly. If you're looking for employment...

LOL..........

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by sailortjk1

My current yard rarely gives estaimates. Repairs are done on T&M.
Not sure I like that, but than again, they never go over their estimates.

In my line of work, I don't have that luxury. I bid a job per plans and specs. If my estimates are off and missed something, I am screwed.

Im not sure how the yards can get away with giving a quote and not honoring that quote. That one puzzles me.

Most all work that I look at is a bid that I stand on, but once in awhile I see a job that is not straight forward, and that's when I implement T&M. I would like to T&M all of my jobs, but I probably wouldn't get much work because of competition. Lack of good competition in a busy area, and being really, really good, lets you charge T&M all the time. Also lack of competition or no competition in a small area, will let them charge T&M all the time too. The good thing about T&M from my point of view as the person doing the work is, I have the time to get the most complicated job done right the first time. The bad part about T&M from the consumer point of view is, it could very well cost more than the T&M estimate. I can understand getting a bid (not T&M), and then there is an extra because of some really unusual situation, but if a yard has a reputation of extras on bids (not T&M), then I would avoid that yard if at all possible. Estimating work is a talent, and it takes a person that understands all the ins and outs of that type of work, to come up with a bid they can stand on...and an on the spot quote should be taken with the grain of salt. Everytime I gave an on the spot quote I missed something, so I made a rule to never give them.

[zz4gta]

Originally Posted by LarryandSusanMacDonald

We have very few youngsters coming into the marina looking for work. The work is too hard. They don't want to do it.

I would love to work in a marina. I like working with my hands, have auto mechanics background, and engine block machinist experience. Also some fabrication and welding skills. I'm 26 years old, so hardly falling apart yet. But face it, boat repair doesn't pay unless you own the marina. I don't make a bunch of money where I'm working, and can barely afford the place I'm living. But why would I take a paycut to move closer to the water where rent is higher? That doesn't sound like a smart move.

We do not get paid the $85. an hour that is charged for our services. $15 or $20 is all most of us get.

And those guys have been there for 20-30 years? I don't see it as any surprise why you're having trouble finding good motivated people who know what they're doing. It's not that they don't want to do it, its b/c they see a better future/pay in something else.

I don't want it to sound like I'm bustin your chops, hell I agree with you, I've busted my knuckles in 95+ weather and below 35* for nothing more than beer money. But I got older, and figured out cost of living goes up every year, regardless of weather I get a raise or not. Manual labor (for the most part) doesn't pay. Most of the time it doesn't include health benefits or vacation time.

I'd much rather be out in the bad weather than sitting behind this desk, but that would be a poor career move on my part.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by zz4gta

I would love to work in a marina. I like working with my hands, have auto mechanics background, and engine block machinist experience. Also some fabrication and welding skills. I'm 26 years old, so hardly falling apart yet. But face it, boat repair doesn't pay unless you own the marina. I don't make a bunch of money where I'm working, and can barely afford the place I'm living. But why would I take a paycut to move closer to the water where rent is higher? That doesn't sound like a smart move.


And those guys have been there for 20-30 years? I don't see it as any surprise why you're having trouble finding good motivated people who know what they're doing. It's not that they don't want to do it, its b/c they see a better future/pay in something else.

I don't want it to sound like I'm bustin your chops, hell I agree with you, I've busted my knuckles in 95+ weather and below 35* for nothing more than beer money. But I got older, and figured out cost of living goes up every year, regardless of weather I get a raise or not. Manual labor (for the most part) doesn't pay. Most of the time it doesn't include health benefits or vacation time.

I'd much rather be out in the bad weather than sitting behind this desk, but that would be a poor career move on my part.

It's easy to see your point zz4gta, and there in lies the problem. If a yard wants good workers, then they need to pay good wages.

What are good wages? Yard owners probably don't think about how much their workers need in order to have a 'decent life', probably they only think about what is the going rate among other yards so they can remain competitive. So if yard A is paying substandard wages and getting the work, it kind of forces yard B to follow suit. Yard B has to say to itself "we're not going to do business that way. We're going to do top notch work, pay our workers a decent wage, and if we don't get all the work because of how much we charge, then so be it! But the work we do get will be good work, and the work that we produce will be good work. We want to be known as a good yard, to have your boat worked on by good workers that like what they do."

To my way of thinking, yard owners have a responsibility to their workers to make sure they have work for them 5 days a week (which can be hard to do sometimes), and the workers have a responsibility to the yard owner to be available 5 days a week...and do good work 5 days a week. Yard owners also need to provide on going training and proper supervision to their workers, and this applies to all business owners that want good workers. Workers need to take advantage of that on going training, so they can produce a better product. Yard owners need to take an interest in their workers, trying to help better their workers lives. Workers need to show loyalty to the owners that are trying to help them, and not drag a job out unnecessarily, or steal from the owner. Once a yard and the workers get to this point, then they have a Team. Now that they have a Team, they can start talking wages. Good wages are something a man (or woman) can take to the bank, and good wages instill pride and loyalty. Good wages are not $10 or $15.00 an hour, good and decent wages for a person working with their hands is $25 to $31.00 per hour. If a yard really wants good workers, then set up medical and profit share for them too...now we can start to justify a yard charging $85.00 or more an hour...now as customers we don't mind being charged that high price...except for people like my cheap ass dad that would still go to yard A (rest in peace).

There is one problem connected to this discussion though, and it is no matter how much you try to help someone (a worker, a boss, or a client), there will always be people that think that you're trying to screw them.

[buckeyesailor]

I perfer being over paid, ignored working from home doing not a damn thing

Chuck.....Are they hiring where you work?......that sounds like my kind of jobl!

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by buckeyesailor

I perfer being over paid, ignored working from home doing not a damn thing

Chuck.....Are they hiring where you work?......that sounds like my kind of jobl!

Funny......lol