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  #11  
Old 07-29-2009
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Well, I assumed he bought it here in the region, but I suppose it's possible that he purchased it in Michigan and drove it down to the maryland area. I will have to ask him about it and repost.

He seems a fairly competent guy, but I will also ask him if he stirred the paint, etc.
gh
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2009
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I've heard from power boaters that this year has been the worst for growth and are having to short haul to clean running gear much earlier than in previous years. The yard crew is saying the same, and they think it's due to warmer water temps.

If he has an ablative, and hasn't been moving the boat, he's probably gonna have an issue.
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2009
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I talked to him yesterday.
He bought the paint from the local west marine.

This stuff should be relabeled - barnacle food, or baracle quick-grow.
If you are a racer, you can get some and paint it on your buddy's boat bottom so the baracles will slow him down.
gh
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2009
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What paint? You still never answered this question someone else asked other than to say it was bought at WM.

Not sure what the message is here - we still have no clue what paint he used, how it was applied, how quickly the boat was splashed after painting, if it was applied properly, etc...
Given the hundreds if not thousands of gallons WM sells (of their various relabeled paints), my question would be what's the point?
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2009
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Exclamation The moving myth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37SOLARE View Post
I've heard from power boaters that this year has been the worst for growth and are having to short haul to clean running gear much earlier than in previous years. The yard crew is saying the same, and they think it's due to warmer water temps.

If he has an ablative, and hasn't been moving the boat, he's probably gonna have an issue.
Hi solare,


Being invloved in marine Antifouling development and testing for over thirty years i would like to dispel some myths around Ablative Antifouls.

Basically Ablative and to some extent Self polishing antifouls do not clean themselve by just moving the boat!

While boat speed will effect some growth removal most growth is removed by the lack of INITIAL attachment and inadequate "SUBSEQUENT" attachment to the ACTIVE LAYER of antifouling.

What does this mean?...

as a layman (if i can)...

An Ablative Antifoul is made using Semi soluble and soluble resins that have Cuporus Oxide ( a derivetive and more active compound of copper) blended and suspended amoungst them (along with other additives such as anti slime agents, solvents, color pigments...)

When the Antifoul (applied and cured on the hull) comes into contact with the salt water it reacts with the salt (sodium chloride. Sodium is a active metallic compound) and the initial Antifouing layer softens and slowly ablates cuporus oxide on the paint films surface.

This soft 'cuprous oxide laden film(goes green in white A/fouls) is the 'active layer that does all the work until expleted! then falls away to expose another new layer!

Growth that tries to attach to the soluble, soft Cuporus oxide laden "exposed" layer are either killed by the "biocide" (Cuporus oxide) and fall away or reach a certain size / wieght and fall away as the "soluble layer" breaks down to expose a new layer.

Moving the boat just creates a force that advances the process slightly.

Good Quality Ablative A/Fouls will never have growth on them and only slime. however if poor Mixing, application, and over zealous cleaning occurs and the product is either compromised or worn away they will have growth very quicky! (mainly on the old primer or previously spent old A/Foul)



with Ablative A/fouls they will 'clean" themselves with minimal water movement but can be expended prematurely if you either ...

go to fast!

clean to harshly

Apply to thin a coat or film build.


This info applies to salt water only. Fresh water is another problem as Copper based A/fouls do not work in fresh water as thier is no sodium chloride to "activate" them. this is another topic for another day.

I Hope this clarifies (in a crude and basic form) the workings of Ablative a/foul.

I apologise for the spelling. My spell check is broken and i had to rush this reply before going out!
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2009
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Also...

Rule of thumb for Antifouls selection is the amount of the Active ingrediant.

A A/foul with more Grams per litre of Cuprous Oxide is better than one with less. Taking into account the quality of the cuprous oxide and the blend of resins are equal!

Check the can or ask for a data sheet or MSDS and compare.

More is less in this case (more Cuprous (monovalent copper) Oxide is less growth)
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  #17  
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Dear Mr. k1vsk,

So, which paint that west marine sells as anti-fouling is only good for 1 week?

If I was to name the model number, then you would say what? "Oh, of course, everyone knows that model xxx is only good for a week!".

I will try to get this info for you, but, personally, if it was zebra mussle paint for fresh water applications, sold on the shelves at a chessapeake bay west marine, it should still last longer than a week or two.

And, he told me the shop attendant helped him pick it out.

geeesh.
groundhog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slippery View Post
Hi solare,


Being invloved in marine Antifouling development and testing for over thirty years i would like to dispel some myths around Ablative Antifouls.

Basically Ablative and to some extent Self polishing antifouls do not clean themselve by just moving the boat!

While boat speed will effect some growth removal most growth is removed by the lack of INITIAL attachment and inadequate "SUBSEQUENT" attachment to the ACTIVE LAYER of antifouling.

What does this mean?...

as a layman (if i can)...

An Ablative Antifoul is made using Semi soluble and soluble resins that have Cuporus Oxide ( a derivetive and more active compound of copper) blended and suspended amoungst them (along with other additives such as anti slime agents, solvents, color pigments...)

When the Antifoul (applied and cured on the hull) comes into contact with the salt water it reacts with the salt (sodium chloride. Sodium is a active metallic compound) and the initial Antifouing layer softens and slowly ablates cuporus oxide on the paint films surface.

This soft 'cuprous oxide laden film(goes green in white A/fouls) is the 'active layer that does all the work until expleted! then falls away to expose another new layer!

Growth that tries to attach to the soluble, soft Cuporus oxide laden "exposed" layer are either killed by the "biocide" (Cuporus oxide) and fall away or reach a certain size / wieght and fall away as the "soluble layer" breaks down to expose a new layer.

Moving the boat just creates a force that advances the process slightly.

Good Quality Ablative A/Fouls will never have growth on them and only slime. however if poor Mixing, application, and over zealous cleaning occurs and the product is either compromised or worn away they will have growth very quicky! (mainly on the old primer or previously spent old A/Foul)



with Ablative A/fouls they will 'clean" themselves with minimal water movement but can be expended prematurely if you either ...

go to fast!

clean to harshly

Apply to thin a coat or film build.


This info applies to salt water only. Fresh water is another problem as Copper based A/fouls do not work in fresh water as thier is no sodium chloride to "activate" them. this is another topic for another day.

I Hope this clarifies (in a crude and basic form) the workings of Ablative a/foul.

I apologise for the spelling. My spell check is broken and i had to rush this reply before going out!
+1 to all of the above info. I have painted more boats than I can count (was a boatyard grunt as young man) but have primarily used pettit trinidad and now Pettit Trinidad SR on my own boat. It is a likely possibility he was not mixing the paint as well as he should have between coats. Another posibility is the length of time the boat was out of the water after he had painted.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrn View Post
+1 to all of the above info. I have painted more boats than I can count (was a boatyard grunt as young man) but have primarily used pettit trinidad and now Pettit Trinidad SR on my own boat. It is a likely possibility he was not mixing the paint as well as he should have between coats. Another posibility is the length of time the boat was out of the water after he had painted.
Yes +1 on that too.

stirring so the solids (Mainly cuprous oxide) is evenely dispersed and thus evenly spread in the applied paint film is very very important.

If not stirred and the Cuprous oxide settles in the bottom of the can then only the last few Square metres of film applied will have Cuporos oxide in it and thus actually stay clean,

Also adequate drying so all solvent has evaporated is important or you will get blistering and or bad fouling as the uncured film fails to perform to spec!

leaving it to long will also cause problems.

and remember to observe and mark (or photograph) your boat when you pull it out so as to identify all high growth (HIGH WEAR)areas. then you will know where to concentrate the most Antifoul (2-3 coats) for best performance.
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by slippery View Post
Yes +1 on that too.

stirring so the solids (Mainly cuprous oxide) is evenely dispersed and thus evenly spread in the applied paint film is very very important.

If not stirred and the Cuprous oxide settles in the bottom of the can then only the last few Square metres of film applied will have Cuporos oxide in it and thus actually stay clean,

Also adequate drying so all solvent has evaporated is important or you will get blistering and or bad fouling as the uncured film fails to perform to spec!

leaving it to long will also cause problems.

and remember to observe and mark (or photograph) your boat when you pull it out so as to identify all high growth (HIGH WEAR)areas. then you will know where to concentrate the most Antifoul (2-3 coats) for best performance.
OK mods time to give this guy a few rep power points
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