Plumbing for Greywater in Great Lakes - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 08-20-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimmandit is on a distinguished road
Plumbing for Greywater in Great Lakes

I'm building a 28' Sailboat and just got transferred to Michigan. The boat will now be used on Lake Michigan. The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality tells me that there is no discharge of any type allowed. Does everyone plumb all the greywater to holding tanks for pumpout? Seems like a large tank and frequent pumpouts would be a problem. Are diverter valves allowed for sinks to drain to seacocks in the event that the boat is taken to waters where the discharge of greywater is permitted? I'm not familiar with the regulations and state officials haven't been very helpful.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 08-20-2009
sailortjk1's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Porter, IN
Posts: 4,647
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 10
sailortjk1 has a spectacular aura about sailortjk1 has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmandit View Post
The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality tells me that there is no discharge of any type allowed. Does everyone plumb all the greywater to holding tanks for pumpout?
I think they are referring to Black Water only.
Grey water on Lake Michigan is acceptable.
Our sinks and shower drain directly overboard.
There are a couple of remote areas on the Great Lakes that Grey Water must be contained. Isle Royal National Park on Lake Superior is the one that I know of.
__________________
Courtney is My Hero

If a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most - E.B. White

Last edited by sailortjk1; 08-20-2009 at 09:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 08-20-2009
Diva27's Avatar
overdue at Sans Souci
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Midland Ontario
Posts: 167
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Diva27 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmandit View Post
I'm building a 28' Sailboat and just got transferred to Michigan. The boat will now be used on Lake Michigan. The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality tells me that there is no discharge of any type allowed. Does everyone plumb all the greywater to holding tanks for pumpout? Seems like a large tank and frequent pumpouts would be a problem. Are diverter valves allowed for sinks to drain to seacocks in the event that the boat is taken to waters where the discharge of greywater is permitted? I'm not familiar with the regulations and state officials haven't been very helpful.
I would ask DEQ again, because I wasn't aware of mandatory grey water retention. You might want to try EPA instead. On the Ontario side of the Great Lakes, sink and shower drains (grey water) can directly discharge. Heads have to be pumped into a holding tank, and "Y" valves that would allow the option of pumping into a holding tank or discharging directly overboard are illegal.
Considering the fact that freighters are allowed to hose down their decks directly into the Great Lakes, and cruise ships can discharge insane amounts of grey water (if otherwise, please let me know), I'd be surprised if any states bordering the Great Lakes has grey water retention regs.
__________________
"Diva"
C&C 27 Mk 1
Midland Bay Sailing Club

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


It is better to be vaguely correct than specifically wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-20-2009
Diva27's Avatar
overdue at Sans Souci
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Midland Ontario
Posts: 167
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Diva27 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailortjk1 View Post
I think they are referring to Black Water only.
Grey water on Lake Michigan is acceptable.
Our sinks and shower drain directly overboard.
There are a couple of remote areas on the Great Lakes that Grey Water must be contained. Isle Royal National Park on Lake Superior is the one that I know of.
Good point about Isle Royale. I checked the Boating Guide for the park. Its perimeter extends 4.5 miles offshore. The guide says "Federal regulations
prohibit the discharge of any waste, including gray water, into park waters." I believe the park ranger there even pioneered a reg that forbids freighters discharging ballast water within the park perimeter. It's a national park, and I don't know if Apostle Islands National Lakeshore has anything similar.
There have been experiments with grey water treatment systems (including hydrogen peroxide) but so far nothing's come of them that I know.
__________________
"Diva"
C&C 27 Mk 1
Midland Bay Sailing Club

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


It is better to be vaguely correct than specifically wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-20-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimmandit is on a distinguished road
Thanks for the info. It seemed crazy what DEQ told me. When I finally get to Isle Rolyale I'll worry about that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-20-2009
Diva27's Avatar
overdue at Sans Souci
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Midland Ontario
Posts: 167
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Diva27 is on a distinguished road
It's not clear to me how Isle Royale is preventing gray water discharge (not that I'm advocating it at the park). Apparently a system-wide reg was considered by NPS in 2003, but it backed off for a variety of reasons. The main ones were that the USCG does not consider gray water a contaminant under the Clean Water Act, boats aren't set up with separate holding tanks, USCG doesn't certify gray water holding tanks, and control of gray water discharge should be "site specific." Isle Royale seems to be leaning on the Clean Water Act for its "federal regulation" justification, but the CWA talks about controlling discharge of oil and other hazardous materials in bilge water. It does talk about gray water, but it seems to be up to USCG to apply the CWA to boating.
California Water Resources Board encourages boaters and marinas to retain and discharge gray water, but I don't there's a law in that state. It says this on the subject:

"USCG defines gray water as drainage from dishwasher, shower, laundry, bath, and washbasin drains. It does not include drainage from toilets, urinals, hospitals and cargo spaces. Gray water is NOT sewage and may be discharged overboard without passage through an MSD or a holding tank. In fact, draining galley wastes into the MSD is not recommended, because food waste is much more difficult to decompose than the human sewage which the marine sanitation device is intended to handle. If retained, gray water must be included in a separate waste retention capacity for the vessel (source: Coast Guard Regulations, 33 CFR 151.05)."
__________________
"Diva"
C&C 27 Mk 1
Midland Bay Sailing Club

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


It is better to be vaguely correct than specifically wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Great Lakes Sailing billscat Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 20 11-03-2010 05:11 AM
Looking at 25-30ft boats suitable for weekending on the Great Lakes jwoytek Boat Review and Purchase Forum 28 10-22-2008 01:38 AM
Great Lakes Weather - Wait 5 Minutes surftom General Discussion (sailing related) 1 08-05-2008 03:18 PM
News From 91.3 KUWS More lakers sailing the Great Lakes this season (BusinessNorth) NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-25-2006 06:15 PM
Great Lakes Cruisers davejean Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 1 12-22-2000 04:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:30 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.