Estimating Time to Restore a Boat

[nickpapa]

I have an old Endeavour 32 thgat needs replacement of ports and headliner reapirs (among other minor things). Loaction is Northern NJ. I have the new ports and am looking for an experienced person to do the repairs localy.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks,
nick

[US27inKS]

My background is in auto repair. I own an auto repair shop, and also have decent carpentry skills. I bought a 27 ft sailboat that was in need of repairs. The problem that I had with estimating the repair time was that I had no boat experience and especially no water damage experience. I had no idea how the deck was constructed, or that it could be a problem. All I knew was what I could see. The bulkheads were rotten, and the floor was was rotten. Once I got into the project, it seemed to go on forever. Based on what I could see and what I knew about boats (exactly nothing) I assumed a 3-4 month project. I worked every weekend, all weekend for 3 years. Research time was tremendous, but I could do that during the week. Obtaining parts usually happened on the weekend, but I tried to do that while epoxy was drying.

I could have fixed it faster, but once I saw pictures of what the boat could be, I couldn't leave one area old and nasty while others were new. Then I couldn't have a beautiful interior with a crappy looking exterior, so I had to paint it.

I must say that my wife was very patient for the fist two and a half years. Then I endured a solid 6 months of a very unhappy wife who would do almost anything to occupy my weekend.

Here's what I saw.



And what it turned into


In the end it turned out good though, and my wife loves the boat.

[nickpapa]

Great Job!

[nickpapa]

Can you provide details of the work done?
I am looking to do the same on a old Endeavour 32 and am trying to figure out if it is worth it.

Thanks,
Nick

[US27inKS]

Originally Posted by nickpapa

Can you provide details of the work done?

I can, but it's quite lengthy and involved, depending on how much detail you want. Let me know how deep into it you want me to go, I will be happy to write a book for you.

I am looking to do the same on a old Endeavour 32 and am trying to figure out if it is worth it.

The answer is almost universally NO. Unless the boat was free, needs what appears to be only minimal work on the surface, and will be worth a fortune when you're done, it will be cheaper to go buy a good one.

This is not to say that I'm not proud of my boat, and proud of the fact that I rebuilt it from scrap. I am very proud of it. Financially speaking though, I could have bought a nice boat, and made payments on it. It would have been cheaper, including the interest expense, and I would have been sailing 3 years earlier, without the months of living with a grizzly bear. And I would have had the loan paid off in the same amount of time it took me to rebuild her.

[nickpapa]

The boat is free, since it's mine and I have neglected her for the last few years. But there is always the tempteation to buy another one.

[hellosailor]

It is the little things that keep projects bumped back on the ToDo list forever, or make them take 3x-10x as long as you'd expected, even if know how to multiply out "boat time".

Little things, like the day a friend went looking for some common nuts and bolts to reinstall the repaired pulpit we needed for an uncoming race. Just a 45-minute trip to Home Depot. Except, the three he visited didn't carry stainless bolts in stock. So eventually he returned with galvanized from stop #4...which worked, but then the job had to be redone after the right stainless bolts were ordered end of season. How do you log the time for that quick repair?

Or the small chainplate fix that needed a piece of marine lumber. Which Condon's (thank you!) actually gave us free on a "pity rate", after a two hour ride each way. After excavating enough trim to find the real extent of the damage.

Or the easy engine repairs, oh, did you need a crush washer? Worth about a penny a piece, but if you need a dozen somehow, they have to be special ordered from Sweden, where the days and national holidays and summer closings don't quite align with the same sun and moon.

Working on boat repairs is easy: Like dropping a dime behind the ten yard line on a football field, then trying to find it in the dark. It isn't the magnitude of the task that gets you, but always SOME little thing, some two cent part, that you can't get even after you call the launch and get in the car and make the trip to where someone answered the phone and said "oh sure, we've got those".

Which is what the ToDo list is for, after all, when there's no wind and you're stuck with a hour on the boat waiting for latecomers or weather...there's always something to be done. Does the time you spend on those jobs, instead of idly waiting, get subtracted from the time you spend pursuing the two-cent monsters from another part of the world? :-)

[mitiempo]

When I started working on my current CS27 last October, I had all the tools needed and hundreds of Stainless screws and bolts, marine wire (14/2 & 10/2), sandpaper, and other things needed for a boat. I have lived in Victoria for 22 years and have relationships with our best marine store (Trotac which is 5 minutes away where I have dealt for all 22 years and get a discount - thanks Cam) and a machinist/welder I have known as long and consider a friend (John at Accufab). There still is sometimes need for 1 3/4" bolts when I have 1 1/2 and 2" only. And then there is the times when your favorite store is out and the next two have none either. Victoria is small and nothing is too far away but it's still easy to waste half the day cruising around looking for something specific. That's all part of the job and I think that if your boat doesn't need too much you should go for it if you're capable of the skills needed, but for a complete restoration, if this is aggravating early on you may never get to the end and will develop a hate for the work before you're finished. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if 1. I didn't enjoy the work and the challenge of each job and the pride on standing back at the end of the day and admiring the progress made and 2. the pleasure of knowing every item on my boat and knowing how it's installed and works along with the easy ability to fix or replace in later years.
Brian

[OhioTom]

I'm currently renovating (not restoring) a 33 year old boat, so this strikes close to home.

I have found, for myself, that the greatest obstacle is perfectionism.

I try to remember what I was told in Israel while training with the IDF. An Israeli officer said, "The enemy of 'good' is 'great'". He meant that in our striving for "greatness" or perfection, we often fail to obtain even a "good" result.

While this advice was meant to apply to military operational planning, I think it has merit, for me, for working on my boat.

I have to force myself to only do that work which will get me safely back onto the water. Everything else can wait. The absolutely necessary work is done to a high standard, but secondary work must wait.

I think that many people just can't help themselves try to get their $4000 boat to look like a $40,000 boat, and instead of actually sailing it in a year, they are still working on it (and spending money) ten years later.

Sometimes you must say, "good enough."

[davidpm]

Originally Posted by US27inKS

I can, but it's quite lengthy and involved, depending on how much detail you want. Let me know how deep into it you want me to go, I will be happy to write a book for you.

The answer is almost universally NO. Unless the boat was free, needs what appears to be only minimal work on the surface, and will be worth a fortune when you're done, it will be cheaper to go buy a good one.

This is not to say that I'm not proud of my boat, and proud of the fact that I rebuilt it from scrap. I am very proud of it. Financially speaking though, I could have bought a nice boat, and made payments on it. It would have been cheaper, including the interest expense, and I would have been sailing 3 years earlier, without the months of living with a grizzly bear. And I would have had the loan paid off in the same amount of time it took me to rebuild her.

Thank you for your post, you are the poster child for the point of this thread.
Here we have a skilled tradesmen with tools and a shop at his disposal.
The estimate was off by a factor of 10.
Many of the young folks that stop by here every few months do not have skills, or space and the only reason they want to restore an old boat is to save money.
Congratulations for working through the job even though it took so long and cost so much. Most people would have given up.

If you would start a new thread with a blow by blow description of the project I for one would love to read it.
It could be in installments, Month 1 etc.