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  #161  
Old 12-07-2010
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This technical area is all laid out in pretty plain English in the ARRL Antenna Handbook I referenced above. Sure there are yet more technical references but I'm not aware of anyone who takes issue with the ARRL publication.

If Mike, who asks for references, won't follow up then this isn't a discussion - it's an argument and I won't play.

Auspicious out.
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  #162  
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With all due respect to all particpants: This thread was originally suggesting (from my reading) that a 12dBi antenna was going to be superior to, say, a 6dbi because it had more range.

Max power allowed is 36dBm for Wi-Fi (for Point-To-Multipoint). That's a full power Bullet2HP and a 6dBi antenna. Staying within the 36dBm limit, a 12dBi antenna coupled to a Bullet would need it's output power derated to 24dBm (250mW). It would seem the benefit of increasing the antenna gain is significantly reduced, if not eliminated, by the decrease in power output of the radio. What you end up with is about the same range and a pancake of a radiation pattern. Why not just stay with the 6dBi and enjoy a fuller 'donut'?

Of course, there are those that would (whether intentionally or not) couple a full power Bullet2HP to a 12dBi omni (42dBm, 16W output). The result is overdriving of the input of the hotspot receiver if in close enough and polluting the airwaves for everyone at an anchorage or marina. Tests we've run and from what I've already read in this thread suggest this is happening. Now at distance: The problem is that the hotspot is probably running only at 36dBm (4W) and may hear a distant 12dBi system, but the distant 12dBi system can't hear back because the hotspot is putting out 4x less power. My arguement (from our tests) is that the Bullet (with stated sensitivities) having a 12dBi antenna stuck on it does not increase its ability to receive to the same order of magnitude as its ability to transmit. Ergo: different effective real world transmit and receive gains. We have successfully connected in excess of 5sm using a 6dBi omni and Bullet2HP mounted on a radar arch (with a clear line of sight and a properly powered and located hotspot of course).

If you want a reliable connection to those distant hotspots that seem flakey, increase the sensitivity by selecting B mode where the spec for the Bullet2HP says that sensitivity and output power are highest. There is also the benefit with lower data rates to receive more reliably since each bit slice time is longer thus giving the receiver a greater opportunity to properly detect it.

This is not about believing/disbelieving anyone. It's about being a good netizen (net citizen) and sharing a Wi-Fi resource that should be available to be enjoyed by all in a marina or anchorage.

Again, if anyone has any real world experience that suggests any of what I've stated above is faulty, I'm alway open to listen and potentially change my viewpoint.

Mike
  #163  
Old 12-08-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
This technical area is all laid out in pretty plain English in the ARRL Antenna Handbook I referenced above. Sure there are yet more technical references but I'm not aware of anyone who takes issue with the ARRL publication.
Nor am I. I never read it, but that's because I got all my antenna, transmission line and propagation theory, and a good deal of practical application, long before I obtained my Amateur Radio license. Hell, I was teaching it long before then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
If Mike, who asks for references, won't follow up then this isn't a discussion - it's an argument and I won't play.

Auspicious out.
Same here.

Jim
  #164  
Old 12-08-2010
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Hey guys: I'm not seeing any compelling counterpoint or reasoning to suggest that tests and observations done by us (bitstorm.com) regarding wifi hi-gain omni antenna usage are wrong, even though I've asked each time for enlightenment.

End of this thread?

Mike
  #165  
Old 12-16-2010
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Last Sunday was a beautiful day on the Long Island Sound. DavidPM and I headed out and found a complete calm. No wind whatsoever.

So I took advantage of the fact that I had a skilled helper on board. We went to work running the cat-5 cable for the Bullet2HP down the mast. I was a bit reluctant, becuase I haven't done the "height above the water" experiment to see if hoisting the Bullet higher gives better reception. Completing the permanent mounting meant bye-bye to that experiment. But I didn't want to waste the opportunity.

Well, guess what? We couldn't get the wire run. First we tried using a metal pull cord tied to monofilament. It stopped right above the deck. We know because I tide off the end at the top, pulled the line out of the mast, and let it hang on the outside.

With me at the top and David below, we thought that maybe it was caught on something due to the angle of the mast. I jiggled and jiggled -- no luck.

Then David tried running the boat in circles, going over our own wake, while I lifted and dropped the line inside the mast. Lifted and dropped. And jiggled. And jiggled some more. No luck.

(If you were at Sands Point or Glen Cove seeing a couple of crazy guys doing tight figure eights at high speed on a calm day, that was us.)

Next we used an unused antenna cable that was already inside the mast. (It went to the mystery antenna I posted about a couple years ago.) I cut off the end, tied the monofilament to it and wrapped the knots with electrical tape. This was after the boat stopped again so there was less need to hold on tight. David pulled (hard) on the bottom of that cable. The end got down to right above deck height and something in the mast peeled away the monofilament. David got a wire with no messenger line attached. That was a setback. Instead of being plus one cable I'm now minus one cable.

...That and my brand-new Todd 4-step dock stairs disappeared during the (very windy) week. Someone said they saw it floating out the inlet. It was a tough week. I really liked those steps.

The good news is the the wind came up a bit after that and we managed to get short bit of light-wind sailing in. That and I still get to do the "height above the water" test. You may see it posted here after I get some free time to run that test.

Regards,
Brad
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Last edited by Bene505; 12-16-2010 at 09:30 AM.
  #166  
Old 01-07-2011
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Brad, thanks for starting this most excellent thread and for the experimentation. I've been following this and the antenna thread since day one. I've got all the parts on order and I should be putting it together in the next month or so. I will post my results and my permanent installation when completed. I'm finally getting this off the ground, I've been humming and hawing for far too long.
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  #167  
Old 01-07-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seayalatermoonglow View Post
Brad, thanks for starting this most excellent thread and for the experimentation. I've been following this and the antenna thread since day one. I've got all the parts on order and I should be putting it together in the next month or so. I will post my results and my permanent installation when completed. I'm finally getting this off the ground, I've been humming and hawing for far too long.
Thanks Seaya,

I'm now hooking up a webcam to my long range wifi. You'll be able to control the pan & tilt and see the cam in the salon.

Why did I do this? I did not winterinze the engine this year since I'm using the boat so much. I'm depending on a bilge heater in the engine compartment to keep the engine from freezing. The heater is connected to shore power. I already found the boat not properly connected to shore power after the marina moved her to her winter slip. She's 25 minutes away and it's important that I keep checking on her.

So yesterday I bought a wireless webcam, with pan and tilt! I'm putting it in the salon so I can check that the boat is still plugged into shore power and the heater is working. I have a 120v light bulb on and I'll put a mercury thermometer in plain sight. (I have a heater in the salon too.) It will be easy to see that everything's ok. The camera was about $70, or a fraction of the cost of the engine work needed if the raw water pipes freezes and things burst.

Having the long range wifi gives me some options in using the webcam while on the hook this summer, even though it's an indoor webcam (THere are outdoor webcams for 3x the price. I'm going to walk before running on this one.) And yes, I'll have to share the web address so you can check out the setup. You'll be able to control the up-and-down and side-to-side motion of the camera, and see the interior of the boat.

The web cam is a little like this one, only I bought it from someone in the US. I didn't want to wait for delivery from Hong Kong -- winter is already here in the Northeast US.



Good luck with your long range wifi installation. I found it a little tricky at first. It helped when I powered up the Bullet after the laptop was already powered-up. But others have found this not to be a requirement. If you need any help just holler.

Regards,
Brad
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Last edited by Bene505; 01-16-2012 at 11:34 PM. Reason: grammer and spelling -- 1/16/2012
  #168  
Old 01-28-2011
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Can anyone help me to figure out what's wrong here. First off, everything arrived and it all went together just fine. The Bullet M2, a TP-Link TL-ANT2412DI Antenna and associated gear. I have followed the directions using both of the following sets of instructions.
http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/Nano_Quick_Set-up.pdf
Bullet setup.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download
I have spent 2 days trying different things with no success.

This is my current LAN setup.



At this stage, I get two green lights on the Bullet. From here on in it gets tricky to get into the AirOS setup page. Sometimes I can get in if I disconnect the power wait a while and re-connect and eventually I get in. Once in, I have tried updating the firmware under the system tab many times. I was able to download v 5.3 firmware but during the upload it gives up and I can't get any further.

So I gave up on that and decided to set the network up under the network tab. So I re-power the bullet and start over and I go to the network tab. Here are my settings:





At this stage, the Bullet's two green light are on and I'm still connected. But once I push Change, the upper lights on the Bullet start flashing continuously/randomly and my LAN connection rotating messages between "network cable unplugged" "Identifying" "unidentified network". See image below. Nothing will happen in the AirOS setup page, ie: The "apply" button does not appear at the top of the page.

I've tried everything I can think of including re-setting the Bullet using the button on the bottom of the unit. I have also disabled the firewall. Right now I'm using Windows 7 but I have also tried installation on my other laptop running XP.

Any help would be appreciated.
Steve

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  #169  
Old 01-28-2011
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READ THIS ARTICLE I WROTE If you still need help after reading it, PM me a phone number I can reach you at, and I'll see if I can walk you through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seayalatermoonglow View Post
Can anyone help me to figure out what's wrong here. First off, everything arrived and it all went together just fine. The Bullet M2, a TP-Link TL-ANT2412DI Antenna and associated gear. I have followed the directions using both of the following sets of instructions.
http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/Nano_Quick_Set-up.pdf
Bullet setup.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download
I have spent 2 days trying different things with no success.

This is my current LAN setup.



At this stage, I get two green lights on the Bullet. From here on in it gets tricky to get into the AirOS setup page. Sometimes I can get in if I disconnect the power wait a while and re-connect and eventually I get in. Once in, I have tried updating the firmware under the system tab many times. I was able to download v 5.3 firmware but during the upload it gives up and I can't get any further.

So I gave up on that and decided to set the network up under the network tab. So I re-power the bullet and start over and I go to the network tab. Here are my settings:





At this stage, the Bullet's two green light are on and I'm still connected. But once I push Change, the upper lights on the Bullet start flashing continuously/randomly and my LAN connection rotating messages between "network cable unplugged" "Identifying" "unidentified network". See image below. Nothing will happen in the AirOS setup page, ie: The "apply" button does not appear at the top of the page.

I've tried everything I can think of including re-setting the Bullet using the button on the bottom of the unit. I have also disabled the firewall. Right now I'm using Windows 7 but I have also tried installation on my other laptop running XP.

Any help would be appreciated.
Steve

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  #170  
Old 01-28-2011
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Thanks Dan, I'll let you know how I make out.
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