Seeking opinions on best diesel repower for long-haul voyaging - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #11  
Old 09-18-2009
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,245
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 7
tommays will become famous soon enough
The question is if you take a spares KIT with pumps and gaskets how much more are you going to repiar ?

If the motor has a major issue with a bearing or piston your pretty screwed no matter how much stuff you pack
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 09-18-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 221
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Gramp34 is on a distinguished road
I've got a similar sized project going that I'll be looking to power in a few years. I'm looking hard at the Cummins B3.3M, marinized by Trans Atlantic Diesels.

Talking about lower rpm giving lower noise and longer life, it's rated at 65 hp @ 2600 rpm, but also delivers 55 hp @ 1800 rpm. I would prop for 1800 rpm max.

The B3.3 engines are primarily used on generator sets, construction and farm equipment. Gensets run either 1800 rpm (60 Hz) or 1500 rpm (50 Hz) 24/7 at full load. The turbocharged versions of these engines are rated for up to 110 hp, so the 65 hp version isn't stressed very much. These engines are also UL and FM approved for fire pump service.

Cummins has dealers all over the world, so parts are available everywhere. They claim to have built over 200,000 of these engines.

Usual disclaimer: no affiliation, etc.

Tim
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 09-18-2009
Don Radcliffe
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 396
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
donradclife is on a distinguished road
I looked at Yanmar, Izuzu, Beta, and Nanni engines in the 50 hp range. Best availability for parts was proabably Izuzu, as Izuzu trucks are everywhere. but I ran into a boat in Cyprus whose Izuzu had broken a timing belt, which opened my eyes to the fact that even some diesels use timing belts. The Yanmar is the only engine designed for marine use, which means that there is not a big spare parts infrastucture for trucks/tractors/compressors/refrigeration/etc. There are more Yamars installed in boats than other brands, but it seems like I have heard too many reports of major Yanmar failures at low hours to be comfortable with that choice.

The Kubota engines are popular in tractors and small equipment (forklifts/bobcats), and one of my friends with a trucking company had his mechanics tear down and rebuild a 30 hp Kubota which had been submerged. The mechanics were very impressed with the engine design--there were roller bearings in places that they did not expect to see them in engines of less than 500 hp. The choice between Beta and Nanni is more a function of what language you can call the factory in.

So I ended up with a Beta 50 (hp at 2800 rpm) in my 30,000 lb boat. Its now 2 years old and has 500 hours on it with the only problem being the built-in oil change pump, and Beta fedexed a replacement to me in Trindidad at no charge.

For extended cruising we put about 350 hours a year on our engine, to supplement the solar/wind battery charging, moving in/out of anchorages, and motoring in areas of very light winds. As a result, we never use more than about 20 hp of the 50hp available, and a turbo would be more of a liability than an asset.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 09-18-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Hey Val

Didn't we do this go-round a year or so ago?
Yes, but the difference now is that the engine is out and I got the estimate for rebuild: $13K using "genuine Westerbeke parts"!

Imagine my reply.

I gave my mechanic some links to Australian diesel rebuild kit sellers, because I can probably get pistons, sleeves, gaskets, cranks and seals for a grand or less from there, which makes a rebuild a better deal, as I understand this engine, and I agree with the "heavy, low-RPM, forget the race boat turbo stuff" concepts.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 09-18-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramp34 View Post
I've got a similar sized project going that I'll be looking to power in a few years. I'm looking hard at the Cummins B3.3M, marinized by Trans Atlantic Diesels.
I was actually looking at this...it's sort of the dark horse in the running.

I have to be sensitive to dealer networks, so that narrows the field. I like the Kubota-based models (Nanni and Beta), but I think Yanmar and Volvo have the edge here.

I wish I liked the Yanmar engines better...they seem kinda...lightweight. Still, the fact that they have a 50% share in many places is going to have to be considered.

I am in the unusual situation that my "from above and either side" access (the engine is in a bay beneath the pilothouse deck) and the fact it's a heavy steel boat means that the usual aspects of access (a plus of the Beta), weight (a plus of turbos and aluminum blocks) and size aren't a huge concern. Almost all current 50-65HP diesels...even the Cummins...are smaller than the existing Westerbeke W-52, which is 700 lbs., so whatever goes in, even hypothetically, should fit without much alteration.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 09-18-2009
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,681
Thanks: 68
Thanked 194 Times in 186 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente View Post
Yes, but the difference now is that the engine is out and I got the estimate for rebuild: $13K using "genuine Westerbeke parts"!
Well... to put this in perspective with our Pathfinder on our last boat we rebuilt the engine (head, bottom end, new rings, brgs, seals/gaskets etc etc, hot tanked and so on) - for under $2500. No labour costs as we did it all ourselves but this was genuine VW parts. We were fortunate not to need new pistons, as they were $1000/set and hard to find.

Even adding labour costs, that's a long way from $13K

PS - at the time Pathfinder offered a "Xmas Special" - we send them our engine and gear, they replace the engine, rebuild the gear, repaint "any colour you want" for $9500 incl shipping. This was about 8 years ago.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

Last edited by Faster; 09-18-2009 at 01:44 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 09-18-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by donradclife View Post

So I ended up with a Beta 50 (hp at 2800 rpm) in my 30,000 lb boat. Its now 2 years old and has 500 hours on it with the only problem being the built-in oil change pump, and Beta fedexed a replacement to me in Trindidad at no charge.

For extended cruising we put about 350 hours a year on our engine, to supplement the solar/wind battery charging, moving in/out of anchorages, and motoring in areas of very light winds. As a result, we never use more than about 20 hp of the 50hp available, and a turbo would be more of a liability than an asset.
Thanks for the vote for the Beta. I like it, but I'm in the rare position of actually having "all the access at the front" being a bit of a liability rather than a plus. Beta's still in the running, however, as I hear a lot of positive things from former Atomic 4 owners.

Our boat is 30,000 lbs. with full diesel and no water or gear. It will be about 34,000 lbs. fully loaded as we will add 40 gallons of diesel and 200 gallons of water plus gear and stores.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 09-18-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Well... to put this in perspective with our Pathfinder on our last boat we rebuilt the engine (head, bottom end, new rings, brgs, seals/gaskets etc etc, hot tanked and so on) - for under $2500. No labour costs as we did it all ourselves but this was genuine VW parts. We were fortunate not to need new pistons, as they were $1000/set and hard to find.

Even adding labour costs, that's a long way from $13K
Yes, indeed. Westerbeke is as bad as Volvo for rapacious spares prices. Trust me, labour is not the huge cost here. However, if I can score identical "Mazda Diesel" spares, the cost would be 90% less, with the exception of a couple of things like a heat exchanger and a Sherwood raw water pump ($485 last time I checked!).
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diesel Fuel Essentials Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 03-22-2004 07:00 PM
Diesel Fuel Essentials Tom Wood Her Sailnet Articles 0 03-22-2004 07:00 PM
diesel repower nancisboat Gear & Maintenance 0 05-29-2001 11:06 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:33 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.