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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #11  
Old 10-01-2009
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Many of the boat yards up here use AWAB for the discriminating customers but they are NOT cheap. I buy mine at Hamilton and even with a commercial account I still cringe.

I have no love for Ideal clamps as I have seen soooo many failures and strip outs that I can't even count them.

With the Ideal SS clamps the cover that the screw rotates in can distort and then the screws teeth work their way out of the slots in the band. Unfortunately with perfed hose clamps the tighter you make them the more they want to push the screw teeth out of the band. It's self defeating, hence non-perf clamps..



AWAB vs. Perf


Please don't buy your hose clamps with the hopes of saving a penny. this clamp had failed, five years old and the hose was leaking badly. This was a sinking narrowly averted.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Unfortunately with perfed hose clamps the tighter you make them the more they want to push the screw teeth out of the band. It's self defeating, hence non-perf clamps.
Just a dumb question (a lot of mine are ). Why would a perf clamp have more of a tendency to push the screw teeth out of the band than a non-perf one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Please don't buy your hose clamps with the hopes of saving a penny. this clamp had failed, five years old and the hose was leaking badly. This was a sinking narrowly averted.
Another dumb question. Are there still people who use only one clamp?

Oh, sorry, another one. Who would leave any clamp long enough to get into that condition?
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Old 10-02-2009
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anyone try the Ti clamps? pricey, but no corrosion. not a good choice for high temp applications (hot exhaust sections) but they do very well indeed for most other marine application.
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Old 10-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Just a dumb question (a lot of mine are ). Why would a perf clamp have more of a tendency to push the screw teeth out of the band than a non-perf one?
Take a close look at the design. The screw teeth protrude through the band and as it is tightened the bottom wrap of stainless, facing the hose, that holds the screw drive cover onto the clamp compresses into the screw teeth as the clamp gets tighter. Get it tight enough and the screw cover begins to distort and the teeth begin to be pushed out of the band.

The teeth of a non-perf clamp can not be pushed out because the indents in the band keep them from direct contact with the clamps band itself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Another dumb question. Are there still people who use only one clamp?

Oh, sorry, another one. Who would leave any clamp long enough to get into that condition?
A better question would be why some marine manufacturers still make some items, like this check valve, that do not have enough room on the barb for two clamps???

Why owners let it get to that point is beyond me. That particular check valve one was hidden under a water tank......
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-02-2009 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 10-02-2009
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I'm glad you posted the close up of the two clamps. The ones I have are made differently, the indentations on the band are done from the inside of the band so the screw pushes on the raised areas. This seems inherently weaker than the AWAB design where the screw would be pushing on the main part of the band. The ones I bought were off the shelf at West Marine and also at a local hardware (Ace) when I discovered the WM ones were useless. I did a search for non perforated hose clamps and it looks like the most common design is like the ones I got - all the ones I checked were made in China.
As far as I'm concerned, the 316SS non perforated type that are commonly sold at WM and elsewhere should never be used on a boat, even in a non critical application, they're garbage and could sink your boat.
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Old 10-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
....
Please don't buy your hose clamps with the hopes of saving a penny. this clamp had failed, five years old and the hose was leaking badly. This was a sinking narrowly averted.
That sad looking clamp is likely a general hardware clamp sold as "stainless" - when in fact only the band is stainless, the screw is not - hence all the rust and staining.(which probably did not take all that long in a marine environment)

Once again, kudos to MaineSail for another excellent report.
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Old 10-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Are there still people who use only one clamp?
I only use one clamp 80% of the time or more. I don't think you really need more than one for most situations. If the hose is under pressure (e.g. Exhaust hose) I would prefer two. As Maine points out, most barbs are not large enough for two, so adding a second would be dangerous (it would have the effect of pulling the hose off the barb).

I think regular inspection and replacement is far more important that what type of clamp you use. As someone above implied with the coast guard boat, inexpensive stainless clamps are fine (as long as they really are stainless), just replace them all every few years.
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Old 10-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
I only use one clamp 80% of the time or more.
Umm good luck with that..


Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
I don't think you really need more than one for most situations.
I would agree with that statement, if, it is an item or hose that CAN NOT sink your boat. Appropriate use of single clamps might be the fresh water system but not seacocks or thru-hulls.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
If the hose is under pressure (e.g. Exhaust hose) I would prefer two.
Actually a seacock a foot below the surface is under as much pressure as an exhaust hose. Exhaust systems are designed for minimal to no back pressure and all you're really doing is moving water through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
As Maine points out, most barbs are not large enough for two, so adding a second would be dangerous (it would have the effect of pulling the hose off the barb).
Actually I did not say most barbs are not long enough. I said some manufacturers still make products without enough room. Most all marine rated bronze or Marelon barbs are indeed long enough. It is when DIY's decide to visit Home DEpot and use brass barbs that they often come up short. Barbs should always be measured against the two clamps intended for use.

These are marine rated bronze barbs and are plenty long enough.

This is just barely long enough.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
I think regular inspection and replacement is far more important that what type of clamp you use. As someone above implied with the coast guard boat, inexpensive stainless clamps are fine (as long as they really are stainless), just replace them all every few years.
I will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Having worked on and around boats for years and years I can count on zero fingers the number of AWAB or T-band clamps I've replaced. Actually, I did see one giant T-Band clamp fail on a 12 cylinder Caterpillar on a 100 foot motor yachts turbo intake. This was due to thread galling though and not a failure of the clamp. The installer over tightened galled threads..

On the other hand I have replaced literally hundreds of failed stainless Ideal clamps. I used to have a bucket of them that I showed to friends who insisted on buying cheap Ideal clamps. I used to call them "slip & strip clamps"..

The poor quality of the Ideal clamp is perhaps the sole reason the ABYC USCG and the CFR specify double clamps on flexible below water hoses.


And as the USCG states:
"All seawater flex hoses shall have double corrosion resistant clamps."

Anatomy of a failure that I have seen all to often.Didn't take me long to find a failed perforated clamp in the barn. All I did was dig around a couple boxes of old parts..

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-02-2009 at 03:55 PM.
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2009
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I personally like and use the ABA 316 Stainless steel hose clamps that look like this:


IIRC, ABA and AWAB are the same clamp sold under different labels.
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Old 10-02-2009
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Thanks Maine - that corrosion of the screw is exactly what I saw when pulling my old head hoses. And now I know why.

Great thread.
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