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  #31  
Old 11-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye View Post
. There are many (most?) production boats out there with plywood that never gives a worry as long as it's encapsulated. Plywood coring just doesn't fail without help - either through water ingress or mechanical damage.
Yes this is a very factual statement.

All a couple of us are trying to stress is that when you have a penetration into that core material you now have created a path for water ingress.

There are a couple ways to prevent this at construction but which are seldom used by the cheaper builders...One is as several have mentioned a solid glass core in those areas..or secondly over drilling the diameter of the area by 1/2" or more, sealing the core edges with penetrating epoxies then filling that area with thickened epoxy..next you re drill through your solid cored area to the desired bolt size needed. This takes more time then building it that way in the first place but has the benefit in exact placement for the mounted hardware.

Nothing wrong with building a large area back to the original way it was using plywood or whatever core material you prefer..but as long as you have it open why not use say a 2" hole saw or cut out a larger area for say a mast step with a saber saw in your known deck penetration areas and make those solid..it would only take a few minutes longer to glass up solid. The problem is cured forever. That's all were saying..to each his own though.

Carry on!
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  #32  
Old 11-04-2009
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FWIW...Here is an example of where plywood or any compressabal core material should have never been used..It dosent have any anymore...Problum fixed forever.

To clarify the pictures..The first is Irwins origional lay up of their mast steps on their 41' ketches..you can see they layed op a solid 1" layer under the plywood and then a soild 1/2" over it but inbetween was 2" of plywood core just plain saturatrated and copressed almost 3/8 of an inch. What did thay save maybe 50 bucks back in 1983..woopee.
Attached Thumbnails
Rotten core around Mast Step-repair-000_0017-1.jpg   Rotten core around Mast Step-repair-000_0014-4.jpg   Rotten core around Mast Step-repair-100_0160.jpg  
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Last edited by Stillraining; 11-04-2009 at 12:30 PM.
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  #33  
Old 11-07-2009
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Well The Weather warmed up (+10C) and all the snow melted so I decided to open up the deck and see what I have. Turns out the wood core was only 1/4" thick (the fiberglass skin on the out side is quite thick and is mat between cloth) so I will probably just go with fiberglass. The problem I found is that the rot is worse than I thought. I cut out a 12" X12" square where the mast step and found it was a soaking wet mush. Used a Coat hanger to poak in and see how far back the rot went and discovered that the area that is rotten is about 3'X5'. The only part that is structural is right under the Mast so my thought is to just replace a 1'-2' section under the mast (make it solig glass), clean out about 6"-8" rot around the edge and put glass and epoxy in that and then inject epoxy into the rest. the rest of the roof feels prety solid despite the rot, probably because the glass is already so thick. How does this sound for a solution. Obviously I won't do the fiberglassing part untill the spring as it is dropping well below frezzing at nights now. With it open and tented now it should allow the area to dry out over the winter.
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Old 11-07-2009
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There is not much strength to epoxy resin without cloth reinforcement. As well, if you have to clean out rotten core 6-8" past the cut out you cannot reliably remove it without cutting the top layer off. 6-8" is too far without better access. I'd cut the top skin until I found dry core and replace the rotten core with ply or balsa and solid glass under the step as you plan. Then reglass the top, fair and paint. Make sure you grind a good bevel at the edges, they say 12-1 ratio but 8 or 10 to 1 should be ok. This means if the top layer is 1/4" thick the bevel should be 2"+ to get a good overlap, each side.
Brian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
There is not much strength to epoxy resin without cloth reinforcement. As well, if you have to clean out rotten core 6-8" past the cut out you cannot reliably remove it without cutting the top layer off. 6-8" is too far without better access. I'd cut the top skin until I found dry core and replace the rotten core with ply or balsa and solid glass under the step as you plan. Then reglass the top, fair and paint. Make sure you grind a good bevel at the edges, they say 12-1 ratio but 8 or 10 to 1 should be ok. This means if the top layer is 1/4" thick the bevel should be 2"+ to get a good overlap, each side.
Brian
The problem with that is that from what I found by probing with a coat hanger the rot goes right to the edge of the cabin so I would have to remove the entire cabin deck. That would be a major job (5'X4' minnimum) and probably more than I am prepared to do. Hopefully there is a way to repair this with out having to replace the entire cabin.
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  #36  
Old 11-07-2009
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Not really - without accessing it the repair cannot be properly done. If it deserves repairing it should to be done right.
Brian

Last edited by mitiempo; 11-07-2009 at 05:02 PM. Reason: addition
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I agree with mitiempo

It will always be a compromised repair but it could be "Good enough" compared to the value of the boat and all that jazz..Resin will not adhere to wet material though and they make a product that will penetrate and reinforce rotten wood better then epoxy..I would use that instead if you decide to go that route. The rest sounds like a great plan.
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2009
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I don't know what product Stillraining is referring to but I'm not aware of one that will "reinforce rotten wood better than epoxy". It will still be rotton wood with not much more strength than rotten wood - albeit "petrified". If you have to cut open the deck to repair the mast step all it means is a bigger area. Same process expanded by a few square feet. If the area is 3 times the size it won't mean 3 times the work. More materials, a bit more labour and a much better result.
Brian
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Although it is a great boat and serves us well it is a 1979 that I picked up for $2700 so I suppose that I am looking for a "good enough" fix. I want to make sure that it is structurally sound (ie. around the mast) but when you walk on the deck despite the fact that it would appear the core is rotten the deck itself is pretty solid probably because the fiberglass is so thick. I should mention that my plan also includes washing the entire area with acetone and than flooding the rotten areas with acetone and letting it then evaporate out untill spring. Experience from the past has taught me that rotten and or wet wood can be dried out fairly well in this way. The issue will likely be the joint where the repair is made and potential of cracking there.
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I will bow out mitiempo...I have never used the stuff just read about it and heard others praise of it...Just wanted to get across that epoxy will not adhere to or penetrate wet wood where the other stuff is supposed to seek out moisture.

Carry on
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Relationships are everything to me..everything else in life are just tools to enhance them.


The purchase price of a boat is just the admittance fee to the dance...you still have to spend money on the girl...so court one with something going for her with pleasing and desirable character traits others desire as well... or you could find yourself in a disillusioned relationship contemplating an expensive divorce.
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