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  #1  
Old 11-03-2009
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Cascade 29 upgrades to bluewater, what first?

I bought a Cascade 29, in nice shape, except I need to get the inboard going, but that aside, it's my goal to get this boat ready to cross oceans by summer.

If you look over the entire boat, nothing exactly stands out as "replace me!", it all looks like

"I was well taken care of all my life, but for the last couple years I've been a liveaboard"

I'm not sure if I need to replace all the rigging, down to the last shackle, or if I can leave things that look good, and just replace the main lines get a set of used sails, and all the wires.

Any advice on where to start? I'm hoping to spend about $100 a week on it.
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Old 11-03-2009
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I would replace all the standing rigging if it is more than ten years old, especially if you're planning on taking this boat across an ocean. Unfortunately, you're probably going to be spending more than $100 a week, since you'll want to replace the standing rigging, probably replace the running rigging, may or may not need new sails, etc. At $100/week, you've effectively got a budget of about $3200...

Did you get the boat surveyed when you bought it?? If not, that might be a really good thing to do first...since it will give you a fairly good overview of what work the boat needs.

I'd point out that most of the Cascades were owner finished, and as such, the build quality can range from amazing to abysmal.
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Old 11-03-2009
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Don't let sailing dog bum you out. He just loves to tell people that they need to spend more money. It's not true. Don't believe it! Replace your standing rigging with galvanized wire, hand spliced eyes, and industrial turnbuckles/shackles/thimbles. You can replace all of your standing rigging this way for well under $500. Just because it is ugly does not mean it is not seaworthy. In fact, galvanized rigging is stronger than 316 stainless for the same weight aloft, and it starts to rust around the same time you should replace stainless bits due to crevice corrosion and stress cycling. You could also replace your standing rigging with synthetic for less than the price of 316, especially if you can come up with a novel solution for termination. It will be light and cheap, and plenty strong, but UV is a long term concern. It will take years, not months, for UV to kill dynex dux. I imagine you could make your own deadeyes out of aluminum or HDPE for peanuts.

You want enough sails so that you can sail in any conditions, and lose an entire set of sails, and still sail in any conditions. This probably means working sails, light air sails, and storm sails. A full set of each.

Make sure the boat doesn't let water in, anywhere, dump water relentlessly from every angle, spray a hose at your hatches from every angle, throw buckets of water at your main hatch and boards. Any leaks? Much easier to fix now, than out in the ocean when all your bedding is soaked.

To cross the ocean you will need a wind vane, or at least some kind of self steering.

Crossing oceans is infinitely safer with a crew of 2 than with a crew of one.

Bring a lot of food, bring extra food, bring food that can't go bad. Bring fishing gear, and fishing experience.

Bring water, bring extra water. If seawater gets in your freshwater tank, what are you going to drink?

Make sure that the rig is set up in a way that if any one piece fails, the stick stays up. If you are running and the backstay parts, what happens? If you are on a broad reach and your windward cap shroud parts, what happens?
This means more stays, they will add windage, weight aloft, and look ugly and slow you down, but they are nice to have when your backstay turnbuckle goes zinging up over the cockpit.

Make sure the rudder is sound, and that you have an emergency rudder. (windvane?)

Bring storm survival materials. Series drogue, para anchor, storm sails, etc.

Bring materials to fix your hull in an emergency. Collision mat, splash zone, etc.

Watertight bulkheads and watertight lockers are not convenient, and do not offer good ventilation, but they could save your life.

Bring an EPIRB. Bring signaling materials. I suggest a radio as well.

Have a way to navigate, and a backup.

Have a way to do anything critical even if something fails.

I would take the inboard out and toss it. Put on a little outboard in it's place. The inboard is going to cost more to replace than the boat is worth. It should be new if you want to cross the ocean with it. One outboard, and a small backup 2-stroke will serve the same purpose, weigh less, cost less to maintain, and be easier to work on. So what if your boat will motor slow. It's a sailboat, not a motorboat.

You can achieve all of these things quite cheaply if you are ingenious and have a lot of time on your hands. You don't need a chartplotter and an inboard and a generator and pressure water and TV and laptops and all that to cross an ocean. You need a sound hull, a sound rig, backup plans for everything, and a smart captain.

It's really safer than driving to the marina, so don't get discouraged.
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Old 11-03-2009
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[quote=northoceanbeach;537979 my goal to get this boat ready to cross oceans by summer.
I'm hoping to spend about $100 a week on it.[/quote]

That shouldn't be a problem, wait you meant this coming summer. I thought you meant 2015.

I spend probably an average of $100 a week upgrading my 14 foot boat and do not plan on crossing any oceans. Take SD's advice and get a survey so you know from where you start.

Or you can take Tager's advice and apply your $3200 towards:
  1. Enough sails so that you can sail in any conditions, and lose an entire set of sails, and still sail in any conditions. This probably means working sails, light air sails, and storm sails. A full set of each.
  2. To cross the ocean you will need a wind vane, or at least some kind of self steering
  3. Bring a lot of food, bring extra food, bring food that can't go bad. Bring fishing gear, and fishing experience.
  4. Bring water, bring extra water.
  5. Make sure the rudder is sound, and that you have an emergency rudder. (windvane?)
  6. Bring storm survival materials. Series drogue, para anchor, storm sails, etc.
  7. Bring materials to fix your hull in an emergency. Collision mat, splash zone, etc.
  8. Bring an EPIRB. Bring signaling materials. I suggest a radio as well.
  9. Have a way to navigate, and a backup.
  10. One outboard, and a small backup 2-stroke
You can use the money left over to design and build your own standing rigging.

As far as testing the boats soundness and waterproofness, no need to attack it with a hose from every angle just go out for a daysail, out in the windline (I was there recently), that should test the boats general waterproofness. You should get plenty of waves over the bow on a daily basis.

One last question, why do you need to go sailing across an ocean, you are already there?
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Old 11-03-2009
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Tager

Am i confused and you have really done any significant ocean time ?
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Old 11-03-2009
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"Cascade 29 upgrades to bluewater, what first? "

I would suggest that your first step should be looking for a design that is actually designed for offshore work rather than trying to adapt a 30 year old racer/cruiser. I would think that by the time you got done making this boat sufficiently robust, and adequately equipped, even on teh most basic level, you could have actually bought something was ready to go that was actually intended to go offshore in the first place.

Jeff
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Old 11-03-2009
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With a base PHRF rating of 234, that Cascade 29 is far from being a “cruiser-racer”. To put it in proper perspective the lowly Catalina 30 rates a180. What are your plans? Across the convergence zone to Samoa or the Marshalls? Or are you thinking about heading to the mainland? Whatever you do, your budget is woefully inadequate. I did the trip from San Francisco to Kaneohe last year and our “battle damage” alone was more than your total budget. Let me know if you wish to benefit from my experience.
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Old 11-07-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
Tager

Am i confused and you have really done any significant ocean time ?
Last time I heard from Tager he was in college, living on a 24' boat using a piece of foam as a tender, while all the while spewing forth 'that boats don't cost any money at all' and randomly abusing fairly experience sailors on here.

If it was me NorthOceanBeach out of SD and Tager I know who I would be listening to.
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Last edited by chall03; 11-07-2009 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 11-07-2009
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Ha. No, somebody stole the piece of foam. Sadly. Now I have a kayak as a tender, did I mention that the kayak was FREE? Oh, sorry for being an iconoclast, I guess I should lie and say that the kayak "cost a lot of money."
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Old 11-07-2009
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LOL. I do actually agree largely with your 'low cost' philosophy. Like I have said before I kinda have to, because I am not rich
I do think sometimes perhaps though you may take it to an extreme??

Strangely enough I also find myself agreeing with at least 83% of your offshore advice up above. Tommays point though is that you haven't really been offshore have you??

Quote:
Originally Posted by tager View Post
It's really safer than driving to the marina, so don't get discouraged.
Given that don't you think advice such as the above may be a little off the mark??
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