plexus structural adhesive - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 11-10-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sassafrass is on a distinguished road
plexus structural adhesive

i am currently redoing my hull deck joint (orignally 2" inward flange, through bolted 1/4" bolts on 3 inch centers with non-setting compound sealant) on my 37' boat.

i was wondering if anyone here has used this type of adhesive for such a purpose, and if so, how did it turn out. the specs look good. http://www.itwplexus.com/UserFiles/File/tds/30.pdf

tom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 11-10-2009
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I would be hesitant to use that stuff on the hull deck joint for several reasons. First, I don't know how elastic it is. Second, the bond strength is far too high, and will become a problem if you need to disassemble the hull deck join for repair in the future. It is significantly stronger than the gelcoat to fiberglass bond IIRC. Third, I don't know if the material has a long enough working time to be really usable in this application.

Given that your hull deck joint is through bolted every 3 inches with 1/4" bolts, you may not really require an adhesive sealant for the joint and might be able to use a much more user friendly sealant, like butyl tape instead of a polyurethane-based adhesive sealant, like 4200 or 5200.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 11-10-2009
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Both my boat, a 1977 CS27, and Maine Sail's CS36t were built with butyl to seal the hull/deck join and it's both not leaking today and still flexible. CS used it on almost if not all above the waterline fittings and it's an excellent choice. Also the least expensive. See Maine Sail's link: Re-Bedding Hardware Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com
Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 11-10-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sassafrass is on a distinguished road
i am aware of the butyl tape/caulk option. i believe this is what was in the joint to begin with...some sort of non-hardening compound, as well as some "spot" repairs in a few streatches of presumably polyurethane. however, this has been leaking for some time 70's boat also).

i ask because new products come out. J boats is using this on their new boats, among others. it has both high strength and flexation. i know others use sitaflex or 5200, but i don't think i would go that route. and yes, the product would supossedly be a permanent solution or nearly so, as in impossible to get apart without huge damage to other pieces.

i guess the real question is somewhat related to hard joint vs flex joint. perhaps a hard joint needs a greater surface area. this would make sense to me.

tom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 11-10-2009
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
If the bolts are used to mechanically hold the hull to the deck as they are, the sealant doesn't have to be "structural". The goal of the sealant is to remain flexible and keep out water. Butyl has the most elongation of any sealant I believe and meets the above needs very effectively. I wouldn't use 5200.
Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 11-10-2009
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,435
Thanks: 12
Thanked 131 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafrass View Post

i ask because new products come out. J boats is using this on their new boats, among others. it has both high strength and flexation. i know others use sitaflex or 5200, but i don't think i would go that route. and yes, the product would supossedly be a permanent solution or nearly so, as in impossible to get apart without huge damage to other pieces.

i guess the real question is somewhat related to hard joint vs flex joint. perhaps a hard joint needs a greater surface area. this would make sense to me.

tom
Most boat builders today use Plexus adhesives but they make a number of them. The stuff you gave a link to is usually what they use for grid pans and liners to adhere them to the hull and it has quite low elongation when compared to other products.

None of this stuff will work well if the two mating surfaces are not 100% clean. This will be nearly impossible with an inward flange. You can clean the exterior overlap edge and lay a bead of Sika 291 or 3M 4200 along it then let it cure and re-bed the toe rail over it.

Short of lifting the deck off the hull by 6" to clean it and re-bed it any attempt at re-sealing, short of fiberglass cloth and epoxy, will be a "cross your fingers approach". Some builders used Dolfinite bedding compound which is closer to plumbers putty and not really thick enough or aggressive enough for a hull/deck..

It may just be the bolts leaking and you could always remove them one at a time and re-bed them too.

At least yours can come apart if you have to. My buddies boat was sealed with 5200, and is leaking, so he's rather screwed as there is no getting it apart at this time. It's no fun potentially destroying 35+ feet of aluminum toe rail to re-bed it. Sadly they don't even begin to make Anti-Bond in large enough cans to begin tackling this job...
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 11-10-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sassafrass is on a distinguished road
mainsail,

well, this is the point. i am into a rebuild of sorts and changing the method of attachment of the bulkheads (from a few bolts to tabbed). so the deck can be lifted as high as i want now, as the bulkheads are clear, but won't be able to in the future.

i need to get ahold of the tech support at plexus, but no one answered today. open time is going to be an issue for sure. i picked this product becaue it has the longest open time i could find on their website. i believe the 400 series is more commonly used for this application.

redoing bolt by bolt is not going to work as the issue is not so much leakage at the bolts (more typical i think), but larger quanties of water (green) coming through when heeled over in bigger seas. this i think is because there is no "cover" for the joint, and the water is forced in by the natural action of this activity we love to do (subject our boats to??).

i don't feel like doing a complete fiberglass job, but with the plexus one might be able to get away with a more minimal fiberglassing project.

tom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 11-10-2009
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
You will have to place the sealant/adhesive on and bolt down the entire deck pretty fast in my opinion based on their specs. I think I'd use something with more working time.
Brian
butyl fan
Attached Thumbnails
plexus structural adhesive-working-time.jpg   plexus structural adhesive-2.jpg   plexus structural adhesive-3.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 11-10-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
scottyt is on a distinguished road
sense it is a 2 part system you may be able to extend the pot life by keeping both the parts in a cooler with ice before mixing, or even the mixed stuff in the cooler. when done with epoxy it wont cure even over night ( slow hardener ) until it warms back up when out of the cooler
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 11-11-2009
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Of course, chilling the components may make them more difficult to mix properly—as viscosity increases as temperature decreases generally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyt View Post
sense it is a 2 part system you may be able to extend the pot life by keeping both the parts in a cooler with ice before mixing, or even the mixed stuff in the cooler. when done with epoxy it wont cure even over night ( slow hardener ) until it warms back up when out of the cooler
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What kind of adhesive 2Sheets2Wind Gear & Maintenance 8 10-27-2009 11:51 PM
is a liner a structural member deckhanddave General Discussion (sailing related) 2 11-11-2006 06:44 PM
Removing wallcovering adhesive jknappsax Gear & Maintenance 12 09-01-2006 01:34 PM
Cabin Sole Adhesive ian6460 Gear & Maintenance 2 01-12-2005 09:42 AM
Structural Damage Dan Dickison Buying a Boat Articles 0 06-16-2002 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:06 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.