To torque or not to torque

[roline]

I had bought a used Cal 9.2, with a cast iron keel. Several months after having it delivered, a couple of the keel bolts weeped a little. So in my infinite wisdom, I applied a torque wrench only to find one the bolts to spin and not get tighter. The other ones tightened with only a partial turn. I was horrified that the threads had stripped in the cast iron and it would have to be pulled out. I proceeded to only make things worse and ended up pulling the boat. Searching the INTERNET, the Cal has side pockets for the stud ends to be topped, er bottomed off with a washer and nut, just like in the bilge. The studs were solid rod with the ends threaded. The studs were pristine in condition (fresh water boat) steel studs and iron keel, little potential difference. For more on this project check out the link below...


keelbolts

[davidpm]

Based on what mintkake and the Catalina tech said the following is going to be my recommendation unless we get some veto's or modifications from SD, MS et al.

• Properly block boat on land then do the following one nut at at a time not all at once:
• Mark nut position, take picture
• Remove nut and clean and lube thread.
• Replace nut and torque to 80 lbs.
• Check nut position, take picture

Results:

1. If nut twists the bolt off, be glad it happed on land not in the water, Fix boat.
2. If you can not get nut to hold torque, fix boat.
3. If nut distorts floor of sump, fix boat.
4. If nut turns just a little further than last position mark position and take picture. If this happens next season, fix boat.
5. If nut torques to old position, smile.

Interpretation of results:

1. Bolts breaking off is usually a sign that service is needed.
2. Anything other than the nut torquing to original position means something is going on and needs to be dealt with.
3. If the nut torques to original position it is a good sign but not a guarantee of a sound keel boat. Check the keel-hull joint for signs of weeping.

If you have a Catalina from 1988 or before be especially vigilant as they put plywood in the sump that rots out has has to be replaced. Other builders did the same.

[sailingdog]

David—

If the bolts haven't been inspected in a while, say five-to-ten years, it would probably be much wiser to drop and rebed the keel, and inspect the full length of the keel bolts in the process.

[Stillraining]

I for one like the idea of bolts threaded into cast Iron..

I just asked Gene Gammon how Irwin built their keels he said they used "j" bolts molded in the keel at the pore..there is no way to remove them for inspection

I have 14 of them...half of them under the main engine and the gen set...all 1 1/8" SS ...I'm not looking forward to dropping the keel ever...but also would love to have the piece of mind things are as should be...if there was ever a place for silicon bronze it was here.

To me 80 fp torque sounds way to light for a 3/4" studs..but they are the experts...shoot my Perkins 5/8" crank pulley went 120 fp.

[denby]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

David—

If the bolts haven't been inspected in a while, say five-to-ten years, it would probably be much wiser to drop and rebed the keel, and inspect the full length of the keel bolts in the process.

Dave, Dawg is really good at this.
Dawg, I'll call you with new info.

[bubb2]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

To me 80 fp torque sounds way to light for a 3/4" studs..but they are the experts...shoot my Perkins 5/8" crank pulley went 120 fp.

Rain, a while back The Beneteau dealer that I bought our boat from send me a email about service specials. Among them was re-torquing the keel bolts to 85 pounds. I thought the same thing that does not sound like enough, but then i was thinking much more and you could be crushing fiberglass between the keel and the washer.

I did send them back a email and said thanks for the spec. but I will do this one myself. This fall they did not list the 85 pound spec in their fall service specials.

[tommays]

Guys your having a delusion If you think YOUR uncalibrated Torque Wrench is going to turn a nut to same place as the factorys uncalibrated Torque Wrench

Just the type of lube alone can have a massive effect on how far a nut spins at Torque

[Shortman]

correctly that the Catalina keel bolts are lag bolts? Lagged into wood or lead?

[Omatako]

Actually, I can't torque the keel bolts on my boat, I can't find them



Oh and SD, a common failure in keels (as we have debated before about Moquini) is bad construction. This is how one of my earlier boats ended up and all the keel bolts were all beautifully tight.



I speak with some practical authority on this particular subject. This is why the built-in keel is now a non-negotiable for any boat I own.

[ChuckA]

Roline, That's a helpful webpage with details of your keelbolt refurb!

Several months after having it delivered, a couple of the keel bolts weeped a little. So in my infinite wisdom, I applied a torque wrench only to find one the bolts to spin and not get tighter.

Getting back to the original question, "should a keel bolt torque check be part of a survey?" It seems like checking the torque may reveal a gross problem like a stripped thread, helping to avoid some surprises, but won't reveal all possible issues.

I switched my icon because I took ownership of a Pearson 28-1 yesterday!