Glycol, winterization, and some false burst point claims.

[pdqaltair]

I did some testing last spring for an article that was never finished or published. The interesting surprise was that the "burst point" claims meant very little when compared to actual glycol content. In other words, "-100" or "-60" is just a name according to the manufacturers, not a specification! A bit misleading, I think. Between that and the fact that none of the common manufactures put the actual glycol content on the label, how do you know what you are buying?

Crazy.

Sail Delmarva: Search results for antifreeze

Enjoy.

[Maine Sail]

Great info.

So if I am reading it correctly the "pink stuff" or -50 that many of us already use in our fresh water systems is already only 32% glycol? Wow, quite diluted already!

It would clearly not take much dilution, with water already in a systems hoses or tanks, to conceivably see a 12.5% glycol concentration and a burst point, not just a freeze point, of just 20 degrees F.

This confirms what I have been saying for a while and that is; do not dilute this stuff, especially if you are in ares where it can dip to -20 or -30...

Glad I always drain my strainer before sucking any AF...



P.S. You got reps for that one!

[pdqaltair]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

Great info.

So if I am reading it correctly the "pink stuff" or -50 that many of us already use in our fresh water systems is already only 32% glycol? Wow, quite diluted already!

It would clearly not take much dilution, with water already in a systems hoses or tanks, to conceivably see a 12.5% glycol concentration and a burst point, not just a freeze point, of just 20 degrees F.

This confirms what I have been saying for a while and that is; do not dilute this stuff, especially if you are in ares where it can dip to -20 or -30...

Glad I always drain my raw water side, HX and wet exhaust before sucking any -100 through...

But damn now I need a new tool not just the test strips or floating balls but a real refractometer..

P.S. You got reps for that one!

My main rub is the lack of labeling. That is not permitted on engine coolants; many sates have regulations governing both the labeling and strict adherence to ASTM requirements for the product. With RV antifreeze, we have on experience and reputation to go by, but no disclosed facts.

BTW, industrial winterization and antifreeze fluids are labeled for glycol content, like the DOW fluids. The customers would not accept other wise.

P.S. If all of my tools had to fit in the boat I'd need a bigger boat, which would need more tools....

[pdqaltair]

Truth in Labeling for 2010!

After last years posts on this and other forums, a post on my blog (above), and a bunch of e-mails to state regulators working the antifreeze beat, perhaps there was an effect. Certainly, there is a change. I was walking a boat store the other day and noticed that all of the AF bottles now have labels that clearly state the glycol content and the freeze/burst ratings.

Wow.

http://mystarbrite.com/public/pdf/St...Antifreeze.pdf

This, from West Marine:

"West Marine Pure Oceans -50° (-46°C) Marine Antifreeze provides the ultimate in cold weather and corrosion protection for drinking water systems and all engines. Its premium additive package prevents corrosion of aluminum, copper, brass and solder, but will not harm rubber, seals or hose materials. The 3X-died bright pink color provides excellent blow-through visibility. Formulated with non-toxic, virgin Propylene Glycol (30% Blend), it is tasteless and contains no alcohol. This product is ready-to-use; do not dilute it.
Provides burst protection to -50°F (-46°C) and freeze protection within a range of +12°F to +16°F (-11°C to -9°C)
When testing with a refractometer or hydrometer designed for use with propylene glycol, freeze point readings on the PG scale will range from +12°F to +16°F
Note: The burst point of PVC pipes used in most drinking water systems is about -10°F (-23°C). When winterizing water systems in regions where temperatures can fall below -10°F (-23°C), we recommend using West Marine Pure Oceans -100°F (-73°C) Marine Antifreeze."


Granted, that in the correct circumstance, -50F burst protection is possible, but there are exceptions:
* Ice will begin to form at +16F and it won't circulate. Just so you know.
* PVC will burst at -10F.
* Both PVC and copper pipe will burst before that, because the model assumes that the the item is sealed and has been contracting from room temperature; if it refilled by drainage from higher areas, then the burst comes sooner. Second, the ice and water will separate during the winter, the ice will float, and high areas of plumbing will be vulnerable to bursting well above zero. This is a risk in complex piping, engines, and tankless water heaters if the temperature cycles below +16 F many times.

The bottles now have a nice chart showing the freeze point, the slush range, the burst point, the dilution, and they do state the amount of glycol, so this is all an improvment.

But I would still be wary of cutting it too thin. They are right; dilution is a no-no, because there may not be much glycol to start with! The information is right on the bottle.

[nickmerc]

This is some interesting information. Especially since I have decided to winterize my fresh water system this winter with cheap vodka. It costs only slightly more than antifreeze and it will not leave that awful glycol taste in the system. I was able to rinse out my tank thoroughly this spring so it should all be good.

I also think I will have not problem finding help de-winterizing in the spring.
________
ROLL A JOINT

[pdqaltair]

Originally Posted by nickmerc

This is some interesting information. Especially since I have decided to winterize my fresh water system this winter with cheap vodka. It costs only slightly more than antifreeze and it will not leave that awful glycol taste in the system. I was able to rinse out my tank thoroughly this spring so it should all be good.

I also think I will have not problem finding help de-winterizing in the spring.

I suggest that you do the other items (cleaning, removing covers...) first, and that you launch several days later