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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Not sure a 440 lb load is quite right for a halyard. You may put 440 lbs on it in the initial pullup, but what happens when you have a 30 knot breeze? that 4" stretch now becomes something more.
Not sure I believe that. I have sailed in winds well over 30 knots and not noticed significant stretch on my halyard. Based on empirical evidence, I do not think strong winds put a large load on the halyard on my boat.

Also OP stated that they are casual day sailors. I suspect they would not be sailing in 30 knot winds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Wat I also like about the xlsextra, is the definite color choices, I use red/blue tracer for jib lines, green/blue for spin gear, and cream/blue for main sail. I do have some lessor stretch lines, but again, try to keep the colors appropriate for the sail at hand. Also makes it easier for newbies, if they do not know where the jib sheet is, grab the "red line!" works real well!
That is a good point. The main reason I use the same for everything is so that I can buy a spool. This saves me a lot of money. If you are going to buy pieces anyway to get different colors, the extra cost of upgrading your halyards to low stretch would probably not be that much.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
Not sure I believe that. I have sailed in winds well over 30 knots and not noticed significant stretch on my halyard. Based on empirical evidence, I do not think strong winds put a large load on the halyard on my boat.
Yes; it will. Ever try flattening your mainsail while close-hauled in 30kts? It's difficult to do on our boat with 5:1 purchase and a 2-speed winch; so I'm sure the vertical load on the boom is several thousand pounds. This force is countered by the halyard so it sees as much vertical load as the boom.

Please note there are several types of line with names being used interchangeably here:

Samson XLS
Samson XLS Extra (Could be same as Extra T; but check Samson website)
Samson XLS Extra T (Highest strength version of Samson XLS; blended core of MPF/Dyneema)
N.E. Sta-Set
N.E. Sta-Set X - Parallel Core; cover has red "X" tracers

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 11-18-2009 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 11-18-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
Not sure I believe that. I have sailed in winds well over 30 knots and not noticed significant stretch on my halyard. Based on empirical evidence, I do not think strong winds put a large load on the halyard on my boat.
This is too easy...
Wind Load Calculator

Just b/c you don't notice it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. W/ a mainsail area of 257 sf (not that large for a 34' boat) you're seeing a load of 443 lbs on your sail in 20 knots. And you believe that the halyard doesn't see a great deal of that? Halyards have some of the highest loads of all running rigging on a boat. And they're probably the one line you don't want to stretch.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
W/ a mainsail area of 257 sf (not that large for a 34' boat) you're seeing a load of 443 lbs on your sail in 20 knots. And you believe that the halyard doesn't see a great deal of that?
440 lbs was the figure I was using for Halyard load. 443 lbs in your calculation is the load on the Sail not on the Halyard. The halyard load will be considerably less due to:

1) Much of the load being side load
2) The load being divided between tack, clew, and head
3) Friction at the sail slides

Even if the halyard was taking the entire load, at 20 knots the main on a Bene 285 would take < 300 lbs according to the sail calculator.
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Old 11-18-2009
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ANY way you want to put it. 4" of stretch in a halyard is enough to make a sail ripple and not get full force out of it, Creating heel, and sideways movement when you want forward movement, be you a racer, or casual sailer.

XLS extra and extra T are the same, see here with extra being a blue with different color tracers, T having white with other color tracers.

Marty

I would still recomend a combo, some sort of higher strength/less stretch line for the halyard.
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2009
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If the vertical load on the mainsail is 3000 lbs at the boom; the load on the halyard will be nearly the same because it is the only external component on the rig that will carry a vertical load opposing the downward pull. Equal/opposite forces (see Newton's 3'rd law). This is why mainsails tear out from sail slugs when the halyard is not hoisted taught and outhaul not tensioned and the slugs start taking on vertical and horizontal loads.

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 11-19-2009 at 02:12 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2009
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As you can feel from all the statements you will need low stretch ropes for the halyards. If you are looking for the best use the lowest stretch rope everywhere. But if money is one of the important points change only one halyard and a line and check them yourself. If you are happy with them change the others if not select another brand.
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Old 11-19-2009
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New England VPC for halyards. 8MM for jib and spinn halyards, 10MM for main. 7/16" sta-set for jib sheets. I paid around $400 (spliced my own shackles on) total for 4 halyards and 2 sheets last year for my 29footer. WM rigging had them on sale. Shop around and online, Sailnet has good prices and sales from time to time.

VPC seems to be a good compromise for the cruiser of club racer. The vectran/MFP core doesn't creep and should be fine for a 29 footer.
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Rain dog,
If you have a straight line with a load on 50# on it, any load that you apply perpendicular to the line will greatly increase the load on the line much more than the additional load itself. I'm trying to find the formula but its often used in calc. loads for inhaulers.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2009
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I second VPC, they would make a pretty good halyard and it's cheap.
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