Keel Bolts repair question??!! - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 Old 12-23-2009 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Keel Bolts repair question??!!

Hi

I am looking into buying a nice boat but during survey i was discovered that seven out of nine keel bolts have rusted badly in the area where nuts were tightened on them. Both were stainless steel so no dissimilar material issue was there. I am not looking into the reason for corrosion but would like your opinion on local shop/engineer suggested method of repair. In essence they will first cut the bolts just below rusty area which will leave approximately 1 1/4" of bolt protruding from the keel. then they will be making 3/4"-10 UNC extension sleeve( it will have similar length as the original bolt height above keel) which will have inside thread to be threaded onto the keel bolts once the keel is put into position. Then they will put a compression sleeve around that sleeve and a washer on top then tighten all with a bolt on top which will be of certain length but not long enough to touch the old studs left in the keel. I am attaching few photographs. what do you think of this? Do ypu know of other method of keel bolts repair?

Keel bolts pictures by petarlolic - Photobucket

Regards/petar

Last edited by Petar; 12-23-2009 at 07:07 PM.
Petar is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 Old 12-23-2009
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,879
Thanks: 20
Thanked 219 Times in 167 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Petar,

That is an option but if it were my keel, and I was going to this level, it would be on a pallet heading for Mars Keels in Canada. They actually physically replace the keel bolts with a special process.

Mars Keel - Keel Bolt Replacement

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 30 Old 12-23-2009
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,007
Thanks: 252
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
According to the Catalina 30 official repair recommendations they just use large stainless lag screws with a machine thread on the inside end.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 30 Old 12-24-2009
Cal 9.2 SilverSwan
 
roline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 272
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 16
 
Stainless is subject to crevice corrosion should it become in contact to stagnant sea water. The Na and Cl ions set up a corrosion battery in the stagnate water not allowing the stainless to oxidize to form a protective film. (Stagnate water results in the lack of O2 to allow oxidation) Monel, Bronze or if you need to consider stainless, Aqualoy 22 is less likely to pit. Best companies for keels is Mars and Foss for rudders. If the keel bolts are suspect, better check the rudder post in case there was a little galvanic corrosion going on.

Link to Mars:
MarsKeel - Technology

Cal 9.2 #19 SilverSwan

Last edited by roline; 12-24-2009 at 08:01 AM.
roline is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 30 Old 12-24-2009
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,879
Thanks: 20
Thanked 219 Times in 167 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
According to the Catalina 30 official repair recommendations they just use large stainless lag screws with a machine thread on the inside end.
David,

Lag screws are a band-aid at best and should be used along side other bolts that may have suffered some crevice corrosion. They should generally not entirely replace a cast in place J bolt unless this is a small boat. Lead keels are far to soft to be supported by just lag screws.

When I re-set the keel on my C-30 I spoke with three keel manufacturers and I was told by all three to absolutely not drill & tap or use lags in lead keels. I used the barrel bolt method but would not do it again as it leaked. If I need to do it again I would use the Mars method.


The op's keel has enough threads to use the sleeve method but personally I still much prefer new j-bolts cast in place..

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 12-29-2009 at 04:33 PM.
Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 30 Old 12-24-2009
I don't discuss my member
 
zz4gta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,530
Thanks: 0
Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Anyone got a price estimate for 1000 lbs of lead heading to Canada? Sounds a bit pricey to me.

Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
zz4gta is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 30 Old 12-24-2009 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
David,

Lag screws are a band-aid at best and ONLY to be used along side other bolts that may have suffered some crevice corrosion. They should never replace a cast in place J bolt. Lead keels are far to soft to be supported by lag screws or just simple tapping directly into the lead.

When I re-set the keel on my C-30 I spoke with three keel manufacturers and I was told by all three to absolutely not drill & tap or use lags in lead keels. I used the barrel bolt method but would not do it again as it leaked. If I need to do it again I would use the Mars method.

If lags were strong enough factories would use them as it is far easier to set the hull on a keel with no bolts, then drill into it vs. templating each hull/keel and setting the hull carefully over the bolts.

The op's keel has enough threads to use the sleeve method but personally I still much prefer new j-bolts cast in place..
What are barrel bolts? How are they fitted?

regards/petar
Petar is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 30 Old 12-24-2009
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,879
Thanks: 20
Thanked 219 Times in 167 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petar View Post
What are barrel bolts? How are they fitted?

regards/petar
Basically you drill and tap 2" diameter solid bronze round stock, cut about 2.5" long, to accept the 3/4" keel bolt. You then drill into the side of the keel to create a corresponding pocket for the bronze barrel nut to sit in.

Next a hole is drilled down into the barrel pocket from the top of the keel.

Please ignore my MS Paint skills, they suck.

Red circles are the drilled holes, gray is the barrel nut and red line coming into the holes is stainless or bronze keel bolts from above.

Once done you seal the whole thing up with epoxy and hope it does not leak. We actually tapped mine all the way from the top into the barrel hole so there was no slop but even after coating the keel bolts with epoxy and threading them in it still leaked..

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 30 Old 12-24-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 148
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Regarding hauling, you might try uship.com. No direct experience but haulers bid on your work and you can get references from them. Seemed like a good program when I was investigating moving a possible boat purchase from WI to MA.

Just a thought.

Best wishes.
ereiss is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 30 Old 12-24-2009
Reward for lost Kraken!
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,496
Thanks: 5
Thanked 133 Times in 130 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
"Once done you seal the whole thing up with epoxy and hope it does not leak."
What ever happened to tradition? You can indeed build a clay dam outside the hole in the keel, and then pour molten lead (with a bit of solder or flux to help it bind perhaps?) to seal the hole, instead of using plastics. If you preheat and do the pour right, the new metal will liquify into the existing keel metal and there'll be nothing to leak, just solid metal.
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fixed or swing keel, which is better? TimG2 General Discussion (sailing related) 17 07-30-2014 09:23 AM
reducing keel/adding fin? abacosol Gear & Maintenance 9 07-01-2007 09:32 PM
Keel Bolt question catamount Gear & Maintenance 2 06-20-2005 04:36 PM
Keel Bolt Repairs Don Casey Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 11-10-2003 07:00 PM
Keel Bolt Concerns Don Casey Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-12-2003 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome