I need some rig advice please...

SVPrairieRose · #1 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

I sail an MC 39. It is a heavily built hull, and came in a few different rigs. Mine is equipped with a bowsprit and is setup as a cutter. As such it has nearly 20 feet for its J length. and roughly 50 feet of I. Just around three quarters of the way up the mast are jumper struts or what I have come to call dumb a@@ mother @u@@@@s. I believe but cannot confirm that the boat originally carried running backs but is certainly does not now. My question is this, can I get rid of them? They tear my genny, snag my asym, and foul my halyards. I suspect that they kicked a puppy once. What do they do, and can I ditch em? I have included a link to the best photo I have of the rig and boat in its entirety.

Happy new year guy's and thanks for the advice.

Pictures by SVPrairieRose - Photobucket

xsboats · #2 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

As a rule, the "dumb a@@ mother@u@@@@s" are used on fractional rigs where the forestay only reaches 3/4 or 7/8 of the way up the mast. They provide forward tension to support the mast against the pressure of the backstay and mainsail . In your rig, they are unnecessary, as you have a masthead rig.[forestay to the top of the mast] Ditch em

SVPrairieRose · #3 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsboats

As a rule, the "dumb a@@ mother@u@@@@s" are used on fractional rigs where the forestay only reaches 3/4 or 7/8 of the way up the mast. They provide forward tension to support the mast against the pressure of the backstay and mainsail . In your rig, they are unnecessary, as you have a masthead rig.[forestay to the top of the mast] Ditch em

Ok but do I need to take into account that I use only the inner forestay in storm conditions with a storm weight stay sail?

Faster · #4 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

I can certainly see why they're causing you so much grief... Do you have/use an adjustable backstay? The "dumb a@@ mother@u@@@@s" aka "jumpers" allow the backstay to be able to tension the inner forestay (in the absence of runners) but as xs mentioned that's typically on a fractional rig.. your headstay is going to make a difference, I'd think.. If you added runners I think you can nuke the jumpers, but I'd be talking to a rigger first....

Sabreman · #5 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

You should definitely verify our opinions with a rigger, BUT

xsboats is correct that this configuration is used for fractional boats. As xs says, the jumpers account for the load on the masthead of fractional rigs. The jumpers provide no support for the inner stay sail since the stays provide support for loads aft and above the jumper stays (i.e., mast head). From what I see, they do not help you at all. I can't envision this boat as a frac rig so I have no idea why they're up there.

But check with a qualified rigger in case I haven't accounted for something else.

tager · #6 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

That is weird.

mitiempo · #7 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

I'd bet a previous owner put them there so he wouldn't have to deal with runners. It was a bad plan in any case. On a fractional rig the forestay ends at the jumpers. In your case the jib has to pass through the small gap and it's no wonder it snags. I'd certainly get rid of them. But they'll have to be replaced with runners to support the inner forestay, especially in storm conditions.
Here's a diagram of how runners are supposed to be (26' Thunderbird)

midnightsailor · #8 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

I agree with mitiempo, that they are there in place of running backs. I would definately add running backs with your cutter rig, if you are thinking of removing them. Rick

ps: nice boat

SVPrairieRose · #9 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

Thanks for the compliments and advice guys, but no-one can agree. I don't have an adjustable back stay, I don't want to have running back stays. I have to believe we are are pretty smart people here, will two riggers even agree on the answer? Is there only one answer?

Faster · #10 (**permalink**) 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVPrairieRose

Thanks for the compliments and advice guys, but no-one can agree. I don't have an adjustable back stay, I don't want to have running back stays. I have to believe we are are pretty smart people here, will two riggers even agree on the answer? Is there only one answer?

My problem with your setup is that your headstay will limit movement of your masthead, and therefore limiting the effect the jumpers might otherwise have on your inner forestay tension.. and in any event you're not adjusting your backstay anyway...

That would leave the jumpers' job then, to stiffening the upper panel above the spreaders and presumably stabilizing the inner forestay attachment point.. not exactly tensioning, but....

You need a professional opinion on whether or not you can remove them as is.

Edit: maybe they can be downsized or repositioned in a way that interferes less with your foresails.