Windless cable size, cable manufacture and battery type? - Page 3 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 26 Old 02-18-2010
Old as Dirt!
 
svHyLyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,937
Thanks: 15
Thanked 130 Times in 123 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
FWIW you might find it worth reading through this thread: Cleaning Corrosion from High Tension Electrical Cables - Page 2 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums . I went through the trials of installing a windlass just as you are now. A couple of thoughts:

1. ensure the lugs you order are the correct size for the studs on both your battery, the solenoid; and, your windlass.

2. Do not have the lugs installed before you run your wire. It is certain that the bends and curves in the wire will all but ensure that the lugs are not oriented in the correct direction for the studs. Schedule 4/0 wire does not like to be twisted, and in some cases, cannot be.

3. All this discussion of crimpers is of no use. Crimpers do not give a decent connection between the lugs and the wire and particularly 4/0 wire. Instead, I used a "Swage-It" tool which completely compresses the lugs around and into the wire. By adding your adheasinve shrink tubing beforehand and then sliding it up and over the ends of the lugs, you end up with completely water tight connections. And the Swage-It tool is inexpensive and very usefull aboard.

Good luck.

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."

Last edited by svHyLyte; 02-19-2010 at 08:47 AM.
svHyLyte is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 26 Old 02-18-2010
Senior Member
 
mitiempo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,510
Thanks: 0
Thanked 96 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
This is the one I use but probably not worth it for the crimps most owners need as Genuinedealz charges only $1 labor per crimp. I see the point about aligning the lugs properly but if you lay the entire cable out and then connect the lugs to the windlass, solenoid, and batteries after it should work ok. A good crimper isn't inexpensive unfortunately and hard to justify for a few crimps. You may be able to rent a crimper locally however.
Attached Thumbnails
1.jpg   2.jpg  

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
mitiempo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #23 of 26 Old 02-18-2010
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,889
Thanks: 20
Thanked 223 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
3. All this discussion of crimpers is of no use. Crimpers do not give a diecent connection between the lugs and the wire and particularly 4/0 wire.
This is actually one of the more amusing statements I've seen lately, especially as I have crimped LOTS of 4/0 lugs... What factual basis do you have for this statement? Have you actually ever used a tool designed for the purpose and tried to pull out a wire?

The right crimper, for the right lug, will make an excellent connection, as it is specifically engineered to do by the manufacturer of the lugs or by a third party manufacturer.

For lugs I use an FTZ Industries Correct Crimp crimper. I use it with FTZ industries heavy duty lugs and use the specified dies for crimping the specific terminals (FTZ Lug / Die Specs). This crimper exerts 10,000 pounds of crimp pressure on the lug and is what FTZ stands behind to crimp their lugs. Never once had any issues over hundreds & hundreds of lugs crimped. My local battery wholesaler who makes tons more battery cables than I do uses the same crimper, day in day out.

The FTZ or the Quick Cable Hexacrimp are excellent tools with the proper sized dies for the heavy duty lugs both sell. Many of the crimpers from HFT and other makers are NOT designed for the cast heavy duty marine type lugs, have the wrong sized dies and can over crimp, pinch and fracture the wire internally.

Feel free to use your swage it tool, I have no doubt that it may make a decent connection, but to say that proper crimp tools do not make a proper connection is simply poor information without any factual basis..

BTW there are only two brands of heavy duty lugs I will even use these days. I use the ones made by Quick Cable and the ones made by FTZ. The Ancor lugs have gone WAY down in quality lately course they never made any lugs to begin with only sourced them from the lowest bidder. Their wire is not even theirs and is made by multiple companies some US and some not.

HexCrimp (LINK)

FTZ Correct Crimp (LINK)

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 02-18-2010 at 07:47 PM.
Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #24 of 26 Old 02-19-2010
Old as Dirt!
 
svHyLyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,937
Thanks: 15
Thanked 130 Times in 123 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
This is actually one of the more amusing statements I've seen lately, especially as I have crimped LOTS of 4/0 lugs... What factual basis do you have for this statement?
The information was given to me by one of our neighbors who, with 40+ years in the industry, is the chief electrical engineer for one of the largest electrical wire and equipment distributors in the US. His comment was in answer to my question as to which "crimper" I should use when I was installing my own windlass. Unless I was willing to spend several hundred dollars for a tool for which I would only have very limited use, he indicated that the less costly devices sold by Lowes, Home-Depot et al, simply made poor connections. By comparison, the "Swage-It" tool is inexpensive, has many applications, can be used with relative ease in the narrow and tight confines of a boat; and, by applying uniform compressive pressure to the throats of the lugs ensures that the material of the lugs "flows" in and around the stands of the copper wire providing the best connection--just as does a swaged fitting on rigging wire.

Frankly, I don't care one way or another, nor am I an expert on the subject. However, I did, in 2006, go through the process the OP is going through, and thought he might benefit by my experience. Or not.

FWIW...

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #25 of 26 Old 02-19-2010
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,889
Thanks: 20
Thanked 223 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Unless I was willing to spend several hundred dollars for a tool for which I would only have very limited use, he indicated that the less costly devices sold by Lowes, Home-Depot et al, simply made poor connections.
SV,

I agree 100% with that sentiment. That is not however what you wrote, hence my response. You made a broad based factual type of statement that was read and interpreted by me to include all lug crimpers as not being effective, not just cheap HD ones.

I also own one of the Ancor hammer type crimp tools and would not wish that tool on my worst enemy, especially at $90.00. Does it crimp? Sure, but not a crimp I would want owm my own boat..

Like you I would probably opt for the Swage-It tool over the Ancor hammer crimper, but I'd opt for my lug crimper over the Swage-It every time and yes, I do own Swage-It tools also..

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #26 of 26 Old 02-19-2010
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
There is a big difference between saying that all crimping tools are useless and that the inexpensive ones sold by Lowes/Home Depot/etc., are useless...

I use a non-ratcheting lug crimping tool that works quite well. I've seen the results of a decent lug crimping tool and would argue that even 4/0 AWG wire lugs can be successfully crimped with regularity—USING THE PROPER TOOLS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
The information was given to me by one of our neighbors who, with 40+ years in the industry, is the chief electrical engineer for one of the largest electrical wire and equipment distributors in the US. His comment was in answer to my question as to which "crimper" I should use when I was installing my own windlass. Unless I was willing to spend several hundred dollars for a tool for which I would only have very limited use, he indicated that the less costly devices sold by Lowes, Home-Depot et al, simply made poor connections. By comparison, the "Swage-It" tool is inexpensive, has many applications, can be used with relative ease in the narrow and tight confines of a boat; and, by applying uniform compressive pressure to the throats of the lugs ensures that the material of the lugs "flows" in and around the stands of the copper wire providing the best connection--just as does a swaged fitting on rigging wire.

Frankly, I don't care one way or another, nor am I an expert on the subject. However, I did, in 2006, go through the process the OP is going through, and thought he might benefit by my experience. Or not.

FWIW...

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome