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-   -   Windless cable size, cable manufacture and battery type? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/61976-windless-cable-size-cable-manufacture-battery-type.html)

SanDiegoChip 02-12-2010 12:39 PM

Windless cable size, cable manufacture and battery type?
 
Hi,
Engine = 4 108 Perkins
Boat 36'

We are about to install the cabling for our Lewmar H3 windless. The run is about 22 feet. It will be no further than 25 and no less than 20. As you can see I do not have an exact measurement. I will this weekend coming.
From what I can tell a 4/0 battery cable would be the size to use. I am not positive though. Can someone say for sure so I can make the purchase as soon as I make the exact measurement leaving room for error?

Lewmar

Lewmar H3 windless

12 volt
Motor Power = 1000W
Max Pull (Kg) = 890
Working Load (Kg) =215
Normal Current Draw = 85A
Circuit Breaker = 110A

Also I was thinking of going with Berkshire marine cable, made here in the USA. Any good or bad on this brand?
Berkshire Electric Cable Co., Leeds, Massachusetts USA

And what battery would be recommended? This battery will be used as a starting battery and a windless battery.

Any bad or good on this maintance free West Marine AGM PWC* Battery, 26 Ah, 500 MCA? It is both deep cycle and starting applications. Price seems ok.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...9&classNum=570

Ok maybe this one would be a better battery choice:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...9&classNum=570

Group 34; 55Ah; 12V; 795CCA; 970MCA. 120-minute reserve capacity
Measures 10-3/4"L x 6-7/8"W x 8-3/8"H
18-months' free replacement, 5 year pro-rated warranty

Thank you,
Chip

sailingdog 02-12-2010 12:53 PM

Berkshire cable is excellent stuff...better than Ancor IMHO and less expensive to boot. I recommend them all the time, and use them quite a bit myself. The wire seems to be more flexible than the Ancor brand stuff. I like it a lot.

I would highly recommend getting a battery specifically for the windlass and placing it forward in the boat, near the anchor locker, so that you do not need to run 20'+ of 4/0 cable. The reason for this is simple, 4/0 cable is fairly expensive and fairly heavy, and by putting the battery forward and using a duocharge or echocharge unit to charge it, you can run much smaller diameter wire forward to handle the charging loads. Also, the shorter the run from the battery to the windlass, the higher the voltage will be and the better the windlass will work.

IMHO, the first battery you've picked is pretty lousy for this purpose. It isn't big enough. It is only 26 amp hours. Given that the battery should only be run down to the 50% depth of discharge level, that means you have effectively 13 amp-hours of operation time. The windlass (note spelling) draws 85 amps... if you have 13 amp-hours—that is less than 10 minutes of windlass use... I can see many situations, like where you have to reset the anchor multiple times, that that would not be enough power. Even the second battery is a bit light on power, given the demands that your windlass may have.

I'd also point out that the AMP-HOUR rating on most batteries is a 20-hour amp-hour rating, and if you are using significantly higher loads, the total amp-hours you will get out of a battery will be significantly less due to the Peukert factor. The higher the load is in relation to the battery bank size, the lower the effective available total amp-hours. In the case of your first battery, you'd probably be lucky to get ten minutes of use before the windlass killed the battery entirely.

Finally, I'd point out that you probably don't want to use the same battery for starting the engine as for powering the windlass. You could get royally screwed in certain situations where you killed the battery using the windlass, and couldn't start the engine because of that. Having a separate engine start battery that is not used for anything else is probably the wisest idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoChip (Post 569603)
Hi,
Engine = 4 108 Perkins
Boat 36'

We are about to install the cabling for our Lewmar H3 windless. The run is about 22 feet. It will be no further than 25 and no less than 20. As you can see I do not have an exact measurement. I will this weekend coming.
From what I can tell a 4/0 battery cable would be the size to use. I am not positive though. Can someone say for sure so I can make the purchase as soon as I make the exact measurement leaving room for error?

Lewmar

Lewmar H3 windless

12 volt
Motor Power = 1000W
Max Pull (Kg) = 890
Working Load (Kg) =215
Normal Current Draw = 85A
Circuit Breaker = 110A

Also I was thinking of going with Berkshire marine cable, made here in the USA. Any good or bad on this brand?
Berkshire Electric Cable Co., Leeds, Massachusetts USA

And what battery would be recommended? This battery will be used as a starting battery and a windless battery.

Any bad or good on this maintance free West Marine AGM PWC* Battery, 26 Ah, 500 MCA? It is both deep cycle and starting applications. Price seems ok.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...9&classNum=570


Thank you,
Chip


SanDiegoChip 02-12-2010 01:24 PM

Salingdog,
When I read through the searches in the forums on my questions the wiring to the house battery bank seemed to be what most people recommended.
You make good points.
What I was told is that when you use the windlass it is after you have started the engine and so the engine is charging the battery. I do now think that what you said may come true for me and that is using up that one battery on multiple anchoring attempts or times in a short period. Or by a hard to start motor etc. So going to the house bank may be the best bet.
I am not keen on a battery up near the bow. Space is an issue also, we have a mono hull.
I guess my worry is if you are at anchor for a few days\week what’s to say the house bank is not run down the morning you want to leave?
We at this time have four gulf cart batteries that do it all (start engine etc) for house bank. In the future we plan on having six AGM batteries and one starting battery..
Thanks for the input.
Chip

mitiempo 02-12-2010 01:41 PM

Chip
If you do not want a battery forward draw from the house bank for the windlass. Larger bank so much less of an issue. The engine start battery ideally is only used for engine, fuel pump if there is one and the panel. If your system is designed like most recommend your charging sources go to the house bank and either an Echocharge or ACR charges the start battery. 4/0 is fine but not inexpensive and will give you a 2% drop. Make sure to fuse it near the battery. And make sure the ends are properly crimped and covered with heat shrink for waterproofing.

saildog1 02-12-2010 02:21 PM

I just went through this. I bought the cable from genuinedealz.com. I went with the 1/0. They also have a chart that tells you what sive to use based on length and draw of the windlass. Free shipping also.

mitiempo 02-12-2010 02:26 PM

And they wil do the crimping for $1 each plus parts.

SanDiegoChip 02-12-2010 02:41 PM

Brian,
Same web site I was looking at (genuinedealz.com).
Is a 2% drop OK? Is there a better wire size for this installation?
Thanks,
Chip

mitiempo 02-12-2010 03:06 PM

No problem with 2% drop. Besides 4/0 is the largest common wire.

SanDiegoChip 02-12-2010 05:04 PM

Finally found the cable size in the windlass manual It is 4 AWG up to 50’ run.

sailingdog 02-12-2010 05:51 PM

They're vastly undersizing the wiring. For an 85 amp load, at 12 VDC, with a 25' run (one direction) 4 AWG wire is going to result in a 9.04% voltage drop. This is really a bad idea.

1/0 wire over a run of 25' (50' total) with a load of 85 amps @ 12 VDC, will result in a 3.57% voltage drop... Ideally, you should be using 4/0 cable for this.

The voltage drop calculator I used is located HERE.
Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoChip (Post 569708)
Finally found the cable size in the windlass manual It is 4 AWG up to 50’ run.



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