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  #11  
Old 02-24-2010
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For sure you may find that you cant get enough tension this way. I just though that before you spent the money you could try to tack the sail using a pin and try the down-haul as it currently is.
With a line attached at the goose neck you would be able to run it under the cleat and pull up on the line while pushing down on the boom.
You should be able to get enough tension. The reason I went to a tackle is I didn't have a cleat but a screw stop which was a big pain
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2010
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I'll give it a shot next time I go out and see how it works. Anything is going to work better than my current setup.
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  #13  
Old 02-24-2010
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Thebee64,

You may be over engineering this. Your 23 footer is relatively small and you won’t need much mechanical assistance to set and trim the main. You can get by with a short piece of line tied to the boom at the gooseneck (probably a pre-drilled hole for this) and cleated on the cleat below. You will use your main halyard to tension the luff of the main. No need to have a block and tackle at the bottom to do the same thing. You might want to “band” the mast with some black tape so you know where to initially set the mainsail. Note on luff tension, you want to tension the halyard to get rid of any “puckers” at the mast slides or any horizontal wrinkles on the sail. If you see a vertical wrinkle (when the sail is full) along the luff, then you have over tensioned. Use a Cunningham or your multi part down haul to increase luff tension when it is impractical to use the halyard. Big boats with fixed goosenecks use the Cunningham.

If you’re worried about flattening the mainsail in the event of a freshening breeze, may I suggest you look at installing a multi purchased out haul. You will want to increase the foot tension every time you tension the luff.

I would get rid of the “pig tail” topping lift wire that is attached to the backstay. It can lead to a big problem if you catch a gust while it is still attached (personal experience). Install a proper “topper” that you can adjust

Couple of more thoughts after looking at your photos. If your worried about fresh breeze and downhauls, you might want to think about adding reefing gear on the boom (cleats, check blocks, eye straps etc.) I would also install a boom vang. This will give you way more sail control. You will need to install a strap eye on both the mast base (instead of the down haul tackle) and the boom.
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Thebee64,

You may be over engineering this. Your 23 footer is relatively small and you won’t need much mechanical assistance to set and trim the main. You can get by with a short piece of line tied to the boom at the gooseneck (probably a pre-drilled hole for this) and cleated on the cleat below. You will use your main halyard to tension the luff of the main. No need to have a block and tackle at the bottom to do the same thing. You might want to “band” the mast with some black tape so you know where to initially set the mainsail. Note on luff tension, you want to tension the halyard to get rid of any “puckers” at the mast slides or any horizontal wrinkles on the sail. If you see a vertical wrinkle (when the sail is full) along the luff, then you have over tensioned. Use a Cunningham or your multi part down haul to increase luff tension when it is impractical to use the halyard. Big boats with fixed goosenecks use the Cunningham.

If you’re worried about flattening the mainsail in the event of a freshening breeze, may I suggest you look at installing a multi purchased out haul. You will want to increase the foot tension every time you tension the luff.

I would get rid of the “pig tail” topping lift wire that is attached to the backstay. It can lead to a big problem if you catch a gust while it is still attached (personal experience). Install a proper “topper” that you can adjust

Couple of more thoughts after looking at your photos. If your worried about fresh breeze and downhauls, you might want to think about adding reefing gear on the boom (cleats, check blocks, eye straps etc.) I would also install a boom vang. This will give you way more sail control. You will need to install a strap eye on both the mast base (instead of the down haul tackle) and the boom.
Thanks for the explanation GeorgeB, That's a good idea to set the boom height then raise the main. You also hit on a few other points I was going to bring up after this. Adding a Boomvang is one of those things that is near the top of my to do list. My first real sail was bringing the boat home from Seattle heading north to South Whidbey. Once I got out of the locks it was all downwind sailing. My boom flapped around in the light air pretty good, but of course my sail trim was probably out of wack as well.

Right now I have a pretty simple outhaul as well. I don't think you can see it in the photo, but it's nothing more than a peice of line going from the end of the boom to the Clew back to the of the boom and secured in a cam. The few times I've been out, it hasn't been hard to get tension on the luff, but I'm worried that if the wind does kick up, that I'm not going to get enough pull out of that little line (1/4 in?). I have a feeling that it's not supposted to be connected that way...

As for reefing, I've been searching the forums and it seems that everyone has there different take. My plan was pretty basic, a hook coming from the gooseneck to set the new tack, the same coming from the back of the boom to attach the clew and tighten it. Take up on the halyard to tension the main and the run a reefing line to secure the extra sail at the bottom. Any other ideas are welcome as well. I know there's a lot on the forums about reefing that I need to read.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2010
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Thebee64,

I googled your Coronado 23 on the internet – cute boat. What is the year and what are your long term plans? Fitting hardware can really start adding up cost wise and you never really recover what you add on to a boat. Here are some more thoughts on routing your hardware.

Outhaul adjustment – You can shackle a small bullet block to the clew of your mainsail. Tie a ¼ line to the end of the boom, through the block and back to the jam (cam?) cleat. Gives you 2:1 purchase which should be fine for your 75 square foot main.

Reefing – Do you have #16 halyard winches for both jib and main? If so, you probably will never want to lead the halyards back to the cockpit. You can use your rams head or a Cunningham tackle for the tack. The clew is a bit more complicated. I suggest setting a grommet on the mainsail directly above the boom and in-line with the new clew. Your clew reefing line goes under the boom, through the grommet and “captures” the load portion of the line with a bowline loop. The load line goes through the new clew and back to a check block on end of the boom (starboard side). It then goes through one (or two) bullet fairleads and terminates on a cleat near the front part of the boom. This allows you to stand at the mast, lower the halyard, set the tack, then clew, re-tension the halyard all without changing positions. Don't worry about the little reefing (bunt) lines between the new tack and clew. I know we were all taught this way and it looks really "salty", but unless you're flogging the heck out of the bottom sail. they are not worth it. They leave dirty marks on the sail and they add friction to the air molecules trying to give you lift. I keep my reefing lines in the chart table and thread them in when I need them (over 35kts of breeze and I'm into the second the second reef, so very rarely.)

Topping lift – Run a ¼ Dacron (or smaller diameter in Amsteal/Dynema)line from the masthead through a check block (or bullet block) on the port side end of the boom. Terminate in a jam or cam cleat.

Boom Vang – First, you need to set and mark your “nominal” boom position for the down haul. From your photo, it looks like the main is too low. The head card should be almost at the top of the mast (I think the boom will wind up halfway from where it is now and the mast gate.) Check out the photos from the brochures. Use black tape to mark the mast and boom for your nominal settings. Mount an eye strap near the mast base and one about halfway between the mast and the mainsheet. String your vang tackle between the two. The bottom fiddle block should have a cam cleat on it and the tail of the vang line should easily reach the cockpit (helmsman). Because of your short traveler, you will find yourself using the vang any time you are not in a beat.

Final thoughts. Really think all your hardware out first and make sure it all works together and is ergonomically for you. Holes are permanent. Speaking of which, you will drill and tap all the holes in the boom and mast. Do not use sheet metal screws! When you do your designing, try to keep to one or two screw sizes. The mast and boom walls are thin! Practice first on some scrap sheet aluminum that is the same thickness. Drill slow and use aluminum cutting oil for both drilling and tapping. It makes a big difference.
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2010
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GeorgeB,

The outhaul setup seems pretty simple to set up property so I'm going to rig that the same time I fix my tack and downhaul arrangement as well this weekend. My boom never really had anything holding it down other than the line running from the gooseneck through the tack then down to the cleat on the mast. Something tells me that setup wasn't providing much downward force on the boom at all, so I would be supprised if the boom is low on the mast. Next time I raise the main I will check to make sure that the head is located at the top of the mast.

The Main has a winch (not sure what a number 16 winch is) but the jib haylard does not. It has a single pulley on the bottom on the mast (setting up the jib properly could be a whole 'nother thread!).

I like the idea of having everything rigged in one spot so when the wind is picking up and things get hairy I don't have to be running all over the boat trying to do one thing like reefing.

Thanks again for all the information and help. Have a complete rigging plan before starting is a great idea!

I'm going to take some photos this weekend of the boom sail up, etc that will show you what I have to work with.
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2010
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Thebee64,

You don’t mind me kibitzing on your project? Back in the day, I owned a 1972 C22 and what you’re doing brings me back. I’ve also taken Biron Toss’ basic rigging class and the rig survey seminar so I’m not completely unschooled. Doing a quick internet search, I see that the Coronado's were trailerable. Do you have a trailer or is it permanently in the water? Please take some close-up photos of both ends of the boom. The sliding gooseneck should have two holes molded into the casting. One on top where you shackle in the mainsail tack and the bottom one for a downhaul. If there is none on top, you will want to mount a “rams horn” on the boom to secure the tack. This can also be used for the new (reefed) tack.

Winches are sized and described in terms of purchase power as in 16:1. The higher the purchase power, the larger the drum. From your photo, I guessed you have a 16:1. Usually they have their number stamped on the top. You have an interesting set-up. “Normally” (mostly) the main halyard goes down the Stb side of the mast and the primary jib halyard on port. That would mean that some previous owner originally intended the winch to be used for the jib or he just liked the mainsail winch there (wonder if he was left handed?). Winches are expensive, but sometimes you can find a deal on eBay/Craigs list if you ever think about adding a second one. I think the winch is better served tensioning the main even if it is on the port side. If you plan to stay with the main halyard on port, then you want to rig the reefing gear on the portside of the boom too.
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2010
Coronado 23 MK2
 
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GeorgeB,

I wouldn't be on the forum in I was worried about people kibitzing about my boat! The fact is I'm pretty green and all my information has come from books like "The Complete Sailor" and by forums like this. I need to find some people in the PNW to sail with and learn from. The boat does not have a trailer currently. It would have been nice but it would have busted my budget. The nice thing is that my Dad lives in a little community that has their own little marina and the slip is only $400 a year not to mention it puts my boat about 3 miles away and ready to go. The down side is that the bay is SHALLOW. On a low tide it completely empties out except for the channel and even that is only a foot or 2 deep. I've already gotten stuck once thinking I could beat the tide. Luckily the bottom is sandy so I pushed and pulled, no luck. Finally I went out set the anchor about a far as I could get it. Then I just climbed out on the bow and enjoyed the seasonably warm weather we've been having!

I know I have a ring on the bottom of the gooseneck, I'll have to check the top though as I don't remember seeing one. Getting a Ram's horn with 2 hooks would work out pretty good I have no hooks now. The main is on the stb side and the jib is on the port. It very well could have been swapped it at one point in time. The Halyards need to be replaced. The main is a wire w/ rope tail, but the wire has to run around the drum at least 4 times or it will make it to the cleat. The rest of the rope part of the halyard is getting hard, which has me worried. The jib is a wire / rope as well, it's in the same condition as the main. When I pull down the mast I'm going to change out the halyards and run the rigging for a topping lift. One thing at a time though! I need to start putting priorities on certain jobs first. Securing the main correctly is at the top, followed by a reefing set up for that just in case, then replacing the halyards, adding a topping lift and finally replacing the jib sheets as they are in good condition, just completely oversized for the job (3/8 in line). Somewhere in between I have to drop the sails off to get tuned up, have the correct batten's added (as there are 3 all of them different sizes)
fix some stitching, etc. A whole pile of work that needs to be chopped up into little managable jobs. At least the standing rigging is in great shape! Like I said, I'll get some photo's this weekend of the rigging and get it all posted. Feel free to keep sending me your knowledge, I need it!

Last edited by thebee64; 02-26-2010 at 07:24 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-28-2010
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Well, I got some close up photo's of the mast and boom today. To my suprise it doesn't look like there's any loops on the top of of the gooseneck for a shackle. Also, the winch on the mast looks to have been added later on as it's not the same kind or style as the 2 winches.
Attached Thumbnails
boom hardware questions-gooseneck.jpg   boom hardware questions-aft-boom.jpg   boom hardware questions-jib-halyard.jpg  
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2010
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Thebee64,

Thanks for posting the additional photos, they really show what’s going on. The bad news: Way back in the past, the tack eye on the boom-tack casting broke off. A previous owner attempted to remedy the situation by using that short piece of wire and (halyard) shackle. Not a good setup as you cannot pull foot tension with the outhaul. You’ve got a couple of options. You could drill out the pop rivets and install a stainless steel strap across the top of the boom, using the existing holes and “long” SS pop rivets. Attach the tack to this strip with a 90 degree offset shackle. The other option is to mount a rams horn on one side of the boom. This might also double for your reefed tack. The problem with both is you need to line up the tack with the hoist, (in-line with the hole in the head card) too far back and you will always have wrinkles along the lower edge of the sail.

Downhaul: Is the “eye” part of the gooseneck, or is it independent? If part of the gooseneck, tie your downhaul line to the cleat, reeve it through the eye and then back down and cleated off. If the eye is just floating in the track, you could remove the eye in it’s entirety. Reeve the downhaul line through the gooseneck itself. The problem here is you will get chafe. You can reduce chafe by taking your gooseneck down to West Marine and using their swaging tool, make a tumbled eye on a short length of small diameter wire. Loop the other end through the gooseneck and swage. You could also use a combination of a small block and shackle.

Outhaul: You got some issues here too. The cam cleat is at the wrong angle even if the clew position is almost on top of it. Far better to mount a small cheek block at the end of the boom to “turn” the outhaul. Then mount a slightly offset horn cleat further up on the boom. The problem with cam cleats is they are really hard to release when under high and constant loads like halyards and outhauls. You need to be able to pull on them in order to release the cams. Generally, they are not used for “high load” applications.

You need to really think through all of this rigging as you know, nothing related to sailing is cheap. Your sails most likely are the same vintage as the boat and are probably past their prime. Although you can wash & get rid of most of the mold and mildew on your lines, some of them may also need replacing. So, you need to think about how much money you want to put into the old gal and how much money you want to put towards your next boat. All of this is fixable (and improvable!) we just need to establish a budget so we don’t go off the deep end.
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