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  #21  
Old 03-01-2010
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GeorgeB,

The small wire and Shackle is the main halyard. I removed the little line going around the mast, as this line keeps the boom from sliding all the way down to the cleat, because I wanted to get a "better" photo so I removed it and then needed to support the boom with the main halyard. The setup as I got it was a line running from the bottom of the gooseneck, yes the eye is connected to the gooseneck, then through the tack and down to the cleat.

For the tack, I'm not sure how to do it. I would need some kind of picture to get a better idea of what the strap or side mounted ramshorn would look like installed on a boom. I know I would need to keep the tack of the main as close to and inline with the mast as possible. A simple inexpensive setup would be great, but I've already found out that most of the shelf solutions aren't cheap!

For the downhaul, I'm going to set it up just as you suggested with a small differance. I was thinking about attaching a block to the eye on the gooseneck to help cut down on wear and chafe.

As for the outhaul I had my doubts about the cam cleat as well and the location never made sence as the line was always coming it at a 90 degree angle. I'm still a little confused on the setup though. I would run a line from the eye at the aft end of the boom to a block and shackle at the clew, back to a cheek block and then to a horn cleat on the boom. The horn cleat shouldn't be mounted about were the cam cleat is? would it be better to mount it about 3 - 4" towards the mast?

As for the rigging, it will all need to get replaced sooner or later. As I don't have a big budget it will be one part at a time, with the most worn parts being replaced first. All in all, it looks to be about $400 to replace all of the running rigging (not including the vang that will need to be added). The jib sheets aren't bad as they were stored inside so those will be last and I can't imagine properly setting up a tack, downhaul and outhaul will be over $100 when it's all said and done. If there's a less expensive way without cutting too many corners I'm open to the idea as this boat is only going to be cruising and daysailing.

The sails are orginals I beleive. I know the boat didn't really get used for 15+ years at least. The sails do show there age though. Not every pocket has a batten and the ones that do, each batten is totally different is size, thickness, etc. You can see where it's been patched and fixed over the years. The jib is in a little better condition but one of the grommets around a hank has come off and needs to be fixed. I talked with a local sailmaker and he said to bring them in the get checked out, with the average fix or tune up being about $80 a sail for my size. After I get the rigging sorted out, I'm going to keep an eye out for a good used sail, I don't know if I'll find a correct main, but it looks like a might have a chance for a good headsail. I do want to get this boat correctly sorted out as I do plan on keeping it for a couple of years before I move up to something a little bigger. I do realize that spending money to fix the problems it has now doesn't mean it's going to raise the value of the boat when the time does come to sell it.
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2010
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Thebee64,

Give me a day or so to sketch things out. I took the opportunity to look through the West Marine Catalog and costs add up pretty quickly. The basic tack, outhaul and reefing is going to put a major dent in the $100, another hundred for the vang and a bunch more for replacement halyards. Let’s do some more designing before we panic too much. How good are you with tools? I am leaning now for installing a tack hook that can do double duty for the reef tack. This will have to be drilled and tapped and you might want to take it to a pro if you are uncomfortable doing this. You may also have to bend it to conform to the shape of your boom. The rest of the hardware can be mounted with stainless steel pop rivets. When you take in your mainsail, you will want a grommet set along the foot directly underneath the new clew. See if your sailmaker will include that in the eighty bucks (and try to get those missing battens – he should have some scrap material available).
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2010
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GeorgeB,

Thanks for taking the time to help me sort all of this out.

As far as the actual work, I'm pretty good with tools, granted I haven't tapped any holes in quite some time, but that's what practicing on a scrap piece is for. I've never set any pop rivets so I would have to practice that as well. It would be a good skill to learn anyways! I've done some metal work (mainly on motorcycles) so getting a tack hook to fit the shape of the boom shouldn't be too much of a chalenge. At least the boom comes off easy and it's size is still pretty maniagable to work with.

I'll talk to the sailmaker about the grommet as well. I just reread where you talked about adding the grommet and setting up the reefing line for the new clew.

Quote:
You can use your rams head or a Cunningham tackle for the tack. The clew is a bit more complicated. I suggest setting a grommet on the mainsail directly above the boom and in-line with the new clew. Your clew reefing line goes under the boom, through the grommet and “captures” the load portion of the line with a bowline loop. The load line goes through the new clew and back to a check block on end of the boom (starboard side). It then goes through one (or two) bullet fairleads and terminates on a cleat near the front part of the boom. This allows you to stand at the mast, lower the halyard, set the tack, then clew, re-tension the halyard all without changing positions.
I get the basic idea that I want a line going from the reefing point down to the grommet where it passes through, then gets routed under the boom to the port side (side with the winch) and through a cheek block that sends the line down the boom passing through a couple of fairleads to keep things smooth and snag free to terminate at a horn cleat near the front. Is that correct?
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  #24  
Old 03-03-2010
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THe reefing line should start at the boom, go up to the grommet (reefing cringle) and through and then down to the cheek block on the boom and forward along the boom to a cleat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebee64 View Post
I get the basic idea that I want a line going from the reefing point down to the grommet where it passes through, then gets routed under the boom to the port side (side with the winch) and through a cheek block that sends the line down the boom passing through a couple of fairleads to keep things smooth and snag free to terminate at a horn cleat near the front. Is that correct?
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  #25  
Old 03-03-2010
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Picture is worth 1,000 words. This is how I do it. Note that with a foot rope, you need to have your sailmaker put in a grommet along the foot rope directly under the reefing clew. That way you can pass the reefing line through the sail. My reefing runs inside the boom so you will mount the cheek block at the same spot as my shive wheel. Mount the horn cleat near the mast. You may have to mount one or two eye straps along the boom so the (un-tensioned) reef line doesn’t droop. Use a similar set up on the opposite side of the boom for your outhaul. That cleat can be mounted near it’s cheek block.


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  #26  
Old 03-03-2010
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I See! So the reefing line goes under the boom through the grommet, forming a loop to secure the reefing line to boom, then it runs up to the "new" clew and then down to the cheek block, and back down the boom, etc. The photo really did help, thanks! To set up a proper reefing system doesn't look like it's going to be too bad. What kind of line should I get for it? Is this something were I need zero strech or would a "crusing" quality line work just as well. I would assume to get the length, I would just mock it all up then measure from the boom to the reefing point to the end of the boom, then add the length of the boom plus a few feet for the loop and enough so that the line will stay slack when not reefed.
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2010
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Given the size of your boat, any polyester double braid, like StaSet or XLS will work. 5/16 should be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebee64 View Post
I See! So the reefing line goes under the boom through the grommet, forming a loop to secure the reefing line to boom, then it runs up to the "new" clew and then down to the cheek block, and back down the boom, etc. The photo really did help, thanks! To set up a proper reefing system doesn't look like it's going to be too bad. What kind of line should I get for it? Is this something were I need zero strech or would a "crusing" quality line work just as well. I would assume to get the length, I would just mock it all up then measure from the boom to the reefing point to the end of the boom, then add the length of the boom plus a few feet for the loop and enough so that the line will stay slack when not reefed.
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  #28  
Old 03-04-2010
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Yes, you got it on the run now. At the mast you want to mount a tack hook. You want to work the geometry so the hook spacing matches up with the clew grommet and halyard hole on the head card. I’ve been re-thinking the mounting and you could mount all the hardware except the cleats with stainless steel pop rivets. They are pretty bullet proof, cheap and you won’t worry about pulling out screws in a poorly tapped hole. You may need to buy some longer shank rivets for some of the hardware.

What ever you do, measure multiple times and mock-up! Drill slow and use cutting oil (even in the aluminum) and slow speed – you should get long curls of metal off the drill bit. “Low and slow like a pro and not fast and crass like an a**.” The white residue on your spars is oxidized aluminum which is caused by the galvanic corrosion of dissimilar metals in contact with each other. Use something like Tefgel or Lanacote to liberally coat the contact points between the SS part and the aluminum. You can clean up the excess later. You can even use red locktite in the screw holes.

I calculate your mainsail area to be about 100 square feet, or about half of mine. My reefing line is half inch. Yours will be smaller. You might find the Ľ inch to be on the small side. Try 5/16 or 3/8. It can be any decent Dacron like StaSet. You will want something like SatSet-x for halyards (You could go all the way to Tecnora or Dynema, but now you are into big bucks.)

Outhaul: run the line like it is at the end of boom, over to a small block shackled at the clew, down to a cheek block on the opposite side of the boom and then finished off at a cleat. This will give you the ability to tighten up on the outhaul.

I’ve been rethinking your topping lift. Toppers are helpful in supporting the boom while you reef (that is why the pig tail is so undesirable!) You can tie a 3/16 line at the mast head run it down to the boom end and run it through this block which is shackled to that second hole in the end cap. Look at the Ronstan series 29 with becket and V jam. You will also need a shackle. You can then slacken the “topper” when sailing, support the boom end while reefing and support it while storing the boom between sails.

West Marine: Series 29 Utility Blocks Product Display

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/7629/377%20710/0/tack%20hook/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=tack%20hook&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=tack%20hook&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=448&classNum=449

Now for the Boom Vang. You want to mount a couple of block hangers (aka “bails”. One on the mast above the downhaul cleat (Don’t worry, the downhaul line will pass through the bail. The other one goes on the boom. You want the geometry to be somewhere around a 30 degree angle (check the other boats on your dock). You will need a fiddle block with a cam cleat and another one with a becket. You want at a three or four-to-one purchase.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/5639/377%20710/0/bail/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=bail&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=bail&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=323&classNum=340

These little boom mods, vang and mainsail repair I calculate to be the better part of three hundred bucks. Take your time and shop around. Do you have a local marine consignment store? Shop the internet (and eBay, Craigslist) for bargains. Remember the old adage about the fifty dollar saddle on a ten dollar horse. Good luck, have fun, and enjoy the San Juans!
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2010
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Thanks GeorgeB and Sailing Dog,

I'll probably go with 5/16 StaSet as it's instock at my local WM. I'll check with my other local shop to see if they carry it as well though. You guys have really given me a lot of good information and this weekend I'm going to pick up enough to start on the tack, outhaul and downhaul. The reefing line and topping lift will come next week and then the vang last as it's going to put a good strain on the wallet and while it would be nice to have, it's not something that HAS to be done right away. Those bails should work out pretty good. I also have to do some practicing with pop rivets as well. I have some scrap metal. It's about 1/8th SS.

What should I be looking for in a riveter? Would a hand riveter be better to start out? I'm 29 so I'm not worried about the hardship factor, especially when I don't have too many to set. I would imagine that I can find a guide or how to online, but do you have any advice on setting a good rivet? Last thing I would want to do is have a rivet go skipping across the boom leaving it's tell tale little marks!

When I pull the boom off to do the work, I'm going to clean it up with some Neverdull. I'll pick up something for the contact points as you suggested as well.

If I want to remove that Cam cleat on the boom, do I just drill the rivet out? What would be the best way to cover the 2 holes left behind? Pop in a couple of rivets? Tin something in to fill the hole? I can't imagine water floating around the boom being a good thing.

If I get the tack, downhaul and Outhaul setup this weekend, I"ll send you a photo of the finished work.

I ended up finding a whole 'nother problem though! I was down in the boat the other day. While I was in the V birth, I noticed my chainplate on the Starboad side didn't look quite right. I poked the wood next to it and it was SOFT. I went online and it looks like it's a common problem espcially with formica covering. Looking at it on both sides, there is no indication that there was any water damage. No stains, rot or anything! That'll teach me for not doing my homework! I found a great response by Jeff_H post 2 and 3 replacing bulkhead on how to go about replacing the bulkheads. I'm not too shabby with wood and epoxy and I have the tools so it shouldn't be too bad at all. It's just going to be time intensive. Luckily there's nothing molded into the boat, all of the cabnietry, bunks, etc are just ply held by screws! I've cleared the port side bunk and it didn't take long at all.

I think I going to do some hunting around for some cost effective parts. CL has been pretty good to me, I've been burned on Ebay before. I completely understand the old adage now. Instead of going with a boat that was in the middle of my budget at the time, I should have streched it that few extra dollars on the 24ft San Juan that had been well taken care of. Not to mention I know that my little boat is never going to recoup the money I put into it. That's not too bad though, as having pride in the fact that I can actually polish this little turd will outweigh the fact that I'll probably have the same amount of money into it, that I bought it for!

Last edited by thebee64; 03-04-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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  #30  
Old 03-04-2010
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Argh! I getting a little tired of ripping up your hard earned hundred dollar bills! Unfortunately, old boats tend to have numerous “issues” especially when the DPO (dreaded previous owner) deferred maintenance for a few years. Take some pictures this weekend. It sounds like you have (at least one) leaking chain plate. The chain plate attaches to a rotted bulkhead? Most likely you have rotting in the deck plywood that is sandwiched between the two fiberglass “skins” too. You want to get on this right away. If the deck rot isn’t too bad, you can dig out the rotted wood, dry the rest out and treat with wood penetrating epoxy. Then refill the hole with thickened epoxy, redrill the hole and recaulk while reinstalling the fitting. Rotted bulkheads require removing and replacing. Search for Mainesail’s thread on rebedding deck hardware. It’s a good one. Before you panic, take photos and we’ll get back together on Monday. You might want to start a new thread on this one. Don’t feel too bad, we all throw money at our boats (you do not want to know what I’m putting down on a new lapper!). If you want to take up a cheaper hobby, you might want to consider crystal meth or cocaine addiction.
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